1st telescope removed from controversial astronomy hub on Hawaiian volcano

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There are actually no indigenous people on Hawaii.
Etymology:
Indigenous is derived from the Latin word indigena, meaning "sprung from the land, native".

Hawaii was settled 800 years ago by Polynesians who sailed from the Society Islands.

800 years - that's practically yesterday! Before that, there was no-one there (that we know about).
Are we supposed to believe that before the Polynesians arrived, the Gods and spirits had been sitting on top of Maunakea for billions of years, waiting for someone to come and worship them? Or is it entirely more likely that this nonsense is entirely made up?
Also, the astronomy hub on Hawaiian volcano is in no way 'controversial'. It is entirely normal and right and proper for an astronomical observatory to be on top of a mountain - it's the beliefs of the locals that are controversial, as they have no basis in fact and may be safely disregarded.
 
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"It is entirely normal and right and proper for an astronomical observatory to be on top of a mountain".

That is a belief, not a fact. Just like the natives believe that it should not be.
 
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That is not a belief - it's based on physics. It's better to be above the majority of the atmosphere and also away from light pollution - read more about that here: https://telescopeguides.com/why-are-observatories-built-on-mountain-tops/
No beliefs required. Also, who's to say that the imaginary Gods and spirits aren't perfectly happy with telescopes? If they were unhappy, surely they'd have the mountain erupt or destroy them? Primitive nonsense. Probably better that the astronomers go somewhere else and leave them to it. I bet if they were offered a ton of money as 'compensation' the objections would magically disappear....
 
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"It is entirely normal and right and proper for an astronomical observatory to be on top of a mountain".

That is a belief, not a fact. Just like the natives believe that it should not be.
The summit of Mauna Kea offers arguably, the clearest and most stable view of the cosmos since it is higher than 40% of the earth’s atmosphere - fact. The words “normal, right and proper” are ineffectual words attempting description of scientific fact. As far as the “natives” concern that Mauna Kea is sacred because it is where earth meets sky, all of earth’s surface meets the sky through its five atmospheric layers.
 
Oct 20, 2023
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There are actually no indigenous people on Hawaii.
Etymology:
Indigenous is derived from the Latin word indigena, meaning "sprung from the land, native".

Hawaii was settled 800 years ago by Polynesians who sailed from the Society Islands.

800 years - that's practically yesterday! Before that, there was no-one there (that we know about).
Are we supposed to believe that before the Polynesians arrived, the Gods and spirits had been sitting on top of Maunakea for billions of years, waiting for someone to come and worship them? Or is it entirely more likely that this nonsense is entirely made up?
Also, the astronomy hub on Hawaiian volcano is in no way 'controversial'. It is entirely normal and right and proper for an astronomical observatory to be on top of a mountain - it's the beliefs of the locals that are controversial, as they have no basis in fact and may be safely disregarded.

While you are right, and to an extent, I agree, in the end it is their land.

If you ask me, I do think observing the universe and a religion that worships sky gods should go hand-in-hand; one isn't necessarily affecting the other. However, we are not the ones in position to judge if it's controversial or not. We shouldn't err like the Americans who think they are "judge, jury, and executioners" in places that are not their own land.
 
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Also, who's to say that the imaginary Gods and spirits aren't perfectly happy with telescopes? If they were unhappy, surely they'd have the mountain erupt or destroy them? Primitive nonsense. Probably better that the astronomers go somewhere else and leave them to it. I bet if they were offered a ton of money as 'compensation' the objections would magically disappear....

Spoken like a true imperialist with no respect towards multiculturalism. I am sure astrophysicists can live without one extra telescope in Hawaii. Improvise, adapt, overcome.

What you should be concerned about instead is with what that buffoon billionaire is doing to our skies.
 
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The summit of Mauna Kea offers arguably, the clearest and most stable view of the cosmos since it is higher than 40% of the earth’s atmosphere - fact. The words “normal, right and proper” are ineffectual words attempting description of scientific fact. As far as the “natives” concern that Mauna Kea is sacred because it is where earth meets sky, all of earth’s surface meets the sky through its five atmospheric layers.

All that clearness, yet still marred by Starlink satellites...

As far as the “natives” concern that Mauna Kea is sacred because it is where earth meets sky, all of earth’s surface meets the sky through its five atmospheric layers.

One simply does not juxtapose a literal scientific definition to explain something religious. But I am sure you are very well aware of that already.
 
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It's sad to see about half the people in these comments care less about the Hawaiians opinion of the telescopes on their land. We have been here in America for less than 500 years and now should we let Communism or Imperialist's just say, "hey you've only been here for 500 years, move over we want what you've got! !"
 
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It's sad to see about half the people in these comments care less about the Hawaiians opinion of the telescopes on their land. We have been here in America for less than 500 years and now should we let Communism or Imperialist's just say, "hey you've only been here for 500 years, move over we want what you've got! !"

Thank you for the counter-argument mate. I was honestly taken aback by the bigoted opinions of the initial comments here.

While I admit I'm not the most sensitive or concerned individual when it comes to cultural appreciation, but respect is my bottom-line. Blatant disrespect for native cultures is just so incredibly uncalled for, no matter how people try to spin it (e.g. under the guise of scientific pursuit).

Some people stoop so low it's just crazy...
 
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Mar 5, 2021
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Thank you for the counter-argument mate. I was honestly taken aback by the bigoted opinions of the initial comments here.

While I admit I'm not the most sensitive or concerned individual when it comes to cultural appreciation, but respect is my bottom-line. Blatant disrespect for native cultures is just so incredibly uncalled for, no matter how people try to spin it (e.g. under the guise of scientific pursuit).

Some people stoop so low it's just crazy...
Dear exoHD, Many thanks for your compliment. I do believe in what I said. Many times, I see this kind of bigotry and excessive putdown of indigenous people doing what they know is right for themselves, and then some bigoted whitey (and I'm one too, although not a bigot) just jumps the curb and demands his line of thought be better than what is right for the little guy. We have got to learn that 'all men are created equal' ! !
 
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