9-person crew after MLM module addition?

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PJay_A

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Over at Khrunichev's website (one of the primary Russian contractors responsible for building space station modules), there is a page (in English) listing the capabilities of the MLM module (scheduled to be lifted into orbit for permanent ISS docking in 2012). Among the features listed are "crew quarters for 3" cosmonauts.

See http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55

My question is... Will this add an addditional 3 crew quarters for a 9-person station capacity, or will this substitute current ISS crew living accomodations?

Also, the plan is to jetison Pirs as this will replace that module at Pirs' current docking port. Is it really necessary to jetison Pirs? Can they simply move Pirs some where else?
 
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Zipi

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These crew quarters will improve current Russian crew quarters and will not be used for extra persons. Having 3 extra persons would increase the logistics nightmare too much which is already strained when the shuttle retires.

They have to jettison Pirs since there is not larger diameter Russian Probe&Cone docking ports available. Only Zvezda's zenith and nadir ports are these larger diameter ports and all other Russian ports are smaller ones which are used by Soyuz, Progress & ATV. MRM 1 will also utilize this smaller docking port since it will be docked to nadir port of Zarya.

MLM has only a larger port available to dock with ISS and Pirs have to be jettisoned to free up its docking port. I tried to search does MLM have any larger docking ports available in case it would be possible to grap Pirs with robotic hand and berth it to MLM when it has been docked. However I couldn't find this information by quickly Googling. (I'll probably try harder later :)). It seems that MLM will have only one docking port available when it has been docked with ISS and that will be the smaller one for Soyuz dockings. MLM is based on the same design as Zarya module.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvezda_(ISS_module)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauka_(ISS_module)

Russian segment after MRM 1:


MLM (Nauka) docked: (incorrectly drawn to be docked with Zarya since it will be docked to Zvezda)


Zvezda in contruction:
 
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EarthlingX

Guest
It's big ... :eek:

NASA says it will launch in Dec 2011:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stati ... ifest.html

but no launch date on Khrunichev, or at least i can't find it ..

ESA has also the same date on a page about it's arm:

ERA: European Robotic Arm


ESA":4dlebbdp said:
A robotic servicing system, which will be used in the assembly and servicing of the Russian segment of the International Space Station
ESA":4dlebbdp said:
Launch vehicle: Proton
Launch site: Baikonur Cosmodrome
Launch date: 2011
Khm .. this is slightly off-topic .. :roll:
 
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docm

Guest
There are also the talks between NASA and Bigelow over attaching one of their modules, presumably a Sundancer or BA-330, to the ISS. 180-330 cu/m in one pop. Problem then becomes how to get everyone evacuated in an emergency? The only solution in my mind is for there to be 2 Dragon or Orion Lite capsules (7 passengers each) attached at all times. The only alternatives would be a fleet of Soyuz on station (3 passengers a pop) or drawing straws to see who gets posthumous medals.
 
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PJay_A

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docm":2sh8qvwz said:
There are also the talks between NASA and Bigelow over attaching one of their modules, presumably a Sundancer or BA-330, to the ISS. 180-330 cu/m in one pop. Problem then becomes how to get everyone evacuated in an emergency? The only solution in my mind is for there to be 2 Dragon or Orion Lite capsules (7 passengers each) attached at all times. The only alternatives would be a fleet of Soyuz on station (3 passengers a pop) or drawing straws to see who gets posthumous medals.
Can you pleased provide links to the Bigelow modules? I'm not familiar with it.

But, wow, it is looking more and more as though the station will be far from complete, when the station is "complete" next year (that make any sense?) So, we have the proposed Bigalow module now, in addition to Russia's proposed Node Module and the two roomy science and power modules, the two proposed U.K. Hab modules, as well as having a Dragon "lifeboat" capsule.

As I was Googling the space station, I came across an article published a few months ago basically saying that China wants in now, and that they are currently negotiating with the ISS partners to become a partner. Currently China is planning on building two space stations (one military and one for science). It makes a lot of economic sense to merge their science platform with ISS and become an ISS partner. Because they basically copied Russian system specifications, I figure it could dock nicely on the Russian side.

Oh, I also saw a Russian plan for expansion beyond the 3 proposed modules starting with the addition of an MLM-sized module docked to the space-facing port of the Nodal Module.

Oh, and Ukraine also hopes to contribute a Research module some day and become a partner too.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Have a look at the Bigelow thread in Space Business and Technology. There's plenty of images there :)

Wayne
 
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bushwhacker

Guest
Question. Does anyone on this forum actually belive the US will really deorbit the ISS?
I'm darn sure the Russian wont drop their piece in the ocean till its falling apart or hit by an asteroid. They already have plans for new connecting nodes and additional labs and habs.
The Japanese spent several billion on the kibo lab, you think they want to see that at the bottom of the pacific?
Great Britain has shown interest in building new modules.

I personally just cant imagine it coming down in 10 years.
 
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tadpoletriker

Guest
bushwhacker":3ux1fpao said:
Question. Does anyone on this forum actually belive the US will really deorbit the ISS?
I'm darn sure the Russian wont drop their piece in the ocean till its falling apart or hit by an asteroid. They already have plans for new connecting nodes and additional labs and habs.
The Japanese spent several billion on the kibo lab, you think they want to see that at the bottom of the pacific?
Great Britain has shown interest in building new modules.

I personally just cant imagine it coming down in 10 years.
I concur, but it seems to me there might be even more diverging paths.
A more equatorial orbit would be expedient if the Russians were not part of the partnership.
The Europeans are developing two way ATV's, and launch near the equator.
Imagine the Russians going their own way, and rest over time getting more truss segments, and solar panels and modules and being split into two, or even three stations, each with one of the nodes.

JohnB
 
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Zipi

Guest
tadpoletriker":2xiikx5q said:
I concur, but it seems to me there might be even more diverging paths.
A more equatorial orbit would be expedient if the Russians were not part of the partnership.
The Europeans are developing two way ATV's, and launch near the equator.
Imagine the Russians going their own way, and rest over time getting more truss segments, and solar panels and modules and being split into two, or even three stations, each with one of the nodes.
No matter is the question of one module or the entire space station, but inclination change from 51,6 to 0 would require enormous amount of propellant. Basically when you launch something to earth orbit, you just cannot do major changes to its inclination.
 
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docm

Guest
PJay_A":kmuz8vmd said:
Can you pleased provide links to the Bigelow modules? I'm not familiar with it.
Here's page 1 of the Bigelow Aerospace updates thread. Lots more on the net via Google. It's one of the hot topics these days what with the new space policy and their connections to Lockheed and Boeing, not to mention NASA and others. They could be big, very big.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11776
 
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MarkStanaway

Guest
bushwacker wrote:
'I'm darn sure the Russian wont drop their piece in the ocean till its falling apart or hit by an asteroid. They already have plans for new connecting nodes and additional labs and habs.'

Quite right.
Long term Russian plans for a successor to the ISS seem to involve separating some of their modules and incorporating them into what they are calling OPSEK (Orbital Manned Assembly Complex). This will involve a plane change as the new complex will be in a high inclination orbit up to 70 degrees and launched from the new site of Vostochny in the Russian Far East. Preliminary estimates are that one or two dedicated Progress vehicles for each module will be able to accomplish this plane change. The lowest inclination accessable from Vostochny is 51.7 while the ISS orbits in a 51.6 degree inclination orbit. OPSEK will be assembled around a brand new 4 tonne ball shaped node module equipped with six docking ports.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/opsek.html
 
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EarthlingX

Guest
docm":1dzy02ml said:
PJay_A":1dzy02ml said:
Can you pleased provide links to the Bigelow modules? I'm not familiar with it.
Here's page 1 of the Bigelow Aerospace updates thread. Lots more on the net via Google. It's one of the hot topics these days what with the new space policy and their connections to Lockheed and Boeing, not to mention NASA and others. They could be big, very big.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11776
HUuuugeee .. !..

Does he have stocks on the market ?

Ups .. off-topic ... :roll:
 
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