Add on to Kim's question.

[pioneer0333]

My problem with time is it's definition. Time is accumalated duration from begining to end. This means that time has to have a start and a finish. So this translates to the universe ending if the entire universe started all at once. Assuming that the only thing that can truly be infinite is numbers. Therefore I think that either the universe actually originated at one single time and will run out of time and "end". Or that the universe is infinite and the galaxies we see originated in seperate clusters of many or a few, and that there may be much more stuff beyond what we can see with our telescopes.<br /><br /> I mean that just maybe everything we refer to as the "universe" is just one small area of something much bigger. Either way, I truly do believe that the universe if much bigger than we currently presume it to be. And time needs to be redefined.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[newtonian]

Pioneer0333 - You have given 'your' definition of time and given the result - consider your definition might be inaccurate!<br /><br />Please consider my definition of time:<br /><br />Time: the medium through which cause and effect flow.<br /><br />Did cause and effect always exist? Will cause and effect always exist?<br /><br />One must consider, therefore, if there was a first cause, or First Cause (Jehovah God; Jehovah: definition: He causes to be - from the Hebrew verb "to be" in the causative sense).<br /><br />The Bible specifies a first cause, which leaves open the possibility that God created time (though I do not Know if time always existed or was created - note: space-time was created at the origin of our universe; primordial time, however, pre-existed space-time).<br /><br />Some consider that there was no first cause, but rather an infinite number of past causes and effects.<br /><br />I reject the latter choice.<br /><br />Your question also involves whether our universe is the only one. <br /><br />Granted, the prefix "uni" means one. However, the Bible does not contain an equivalent for universe - instead the Bible uses "heaven" and heaven is often in the plural - e.g. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."<br /><br />Many scientists also postulated other heavens or universes, sometimes called multiverses.<br /><br />It would be reasonable to expect, and it is Scripturally stated, that our heaven was not the first heaven to exist (e.g. the heaven where God dwells pre-esisted our heaven).<br /><br />Earlier existing universes imply the existence of earlier space-times and earlier creations involving primordial time involving, for example, God's concept of time which is much different from the human concept of time (e.g. 1,000 years as one day - Psalms 90:4).<br /><br />I will let other posters add their thoughts, input, etc. on your good question.

 

[kimb68]

I've created a monster! Actually, I think this is a really interesting discussion.<br /><br />I've always found those "prime mover" (first cause) arguments to be unsatisfying because they sound more like casuistry than common sense. Obviously cause and effect have no meaning without time, but that does not mean that time has no meaning without cause and effect. <br /><br />The prime mover is sort of the like the ancient definition of an atom: that than which nothing smaller can be imagined. That is, not only can it not be physically split up, it can't be conceptually split up or reduced. So, in other words, a mathematical point. But a point isn't a thing, it's a concept. Likewise, a prime mover isn't a thing, it's a philosophical construct. By definition, nothing comes before it, yet it's not hard to imagine another mover before the prime mover, and so on, to infinity.<br /><br />I think the definition of time, while inextricably linked perhaps to the beginning of the universe (if there is such a thing), is a different problem. <br /><br />For the record, I find it a lot easier to imagine infinity than nothingness.

 

[nexium]

To me, a beginning does not make an ending mandatory. If the Universe is open, the space between the galactic groups will expand for ever. Some are of the opinion that our solar system will expand for ever, so the skies will be very dark in a few (or many) trillions of years. With advanced technology, beings could continue to live on Earth and in colonies orbiting the Earth. They may even be able to move objects about the solar system preventing them from getting far away. It is theorised that protons decay, but 20 years of experiments have not seen the first proton decay, so some kinds of mater may still be usable, many trillions of years from now. It may take a google years for the last bit of matter to be captured by a black hole, if here are any black holes. Neil