AHHHHH! I need help!

[atticus808]

i know i made a telescope topic but i'm sure no one views it anymore<br />so he's the story<br />my girlfriend went to a local science shop to help me order a telescope and i wanted a Celestron 70 EQ Refractor, and then the lady asks if i'm sure i want it cause the aperture is very small (2.9 inches)<br />so i thought about it for a few days and i went back yesterday to order a Celestron 90 EQ Refractor since i read that refractors give more crip images, and it's about $330 Canadian ($282 American), and then again she asks if i'm sure i want it cause i could get a reflector for cheaper with an aperture of 4.5 inches<br />the Celestron 114 EQ is $289 Canadian ($247 American)<br />now which one should i get? the 90 EQ or 114 EQ?<br />since both of them captures galaxies/nebulaes as a smudge anyway

 

[nevers]

Hi Atticus - <br /><br />Go back to the store and tell the lady "thank you" for me! And then get the 114 EQ. That's my opinion anyway. The reason I say to tell the salesperson "thanks" is, I hate when they don't offer sound advise like she has. I've seen salespeople sell somebody such a small 'scope but one that is computerized over something they will truely enjoy and give worthwhile views.

 

[atticus808]

i am considering the 114 EQ<br />but how often would i have to collimate it?<br />and one thing that confuses me is how to i align the mount to the celestial pole to track properly?<br />that i really don't get<br />what is the celestial pole?

 

[eric2006]

If the telescope is reasonably well aligned with the pole, you don't have to mess with the Declination as much. Most of your tracking will be in Right Ascension. <br /><br />(If the telescope were perfectly aligned with the pole, no Declination tracking of stellar objects would be required).<br /><br />But if you get it close you can watch something for about half an hour before it floats out of view. <br /><br />Is it motorized?

 

[eric2006]

For ordinary visual observing, the telescope’s polar axis must be aligned to the Earth's pole. This simply means positioning the telescope so that the polar axis is aimed up at Polaris. The easiest way to accomplish this is to rotate the telescope tube to read 90° in declination. In this position the telescope will be parallel to the polar axis. Now, move the telescope, tripod and all, until the polar axis and telescope tube are pointed towards Polaris. Finally, match the angle of your telescope’s polar axis to the latitude of your observing location. Most telescopes have a latitude scale on the side of the mount that tells you how far to angle the mount for a given latitude (see your telescope owner's manual for instructions on how to make this adjustment). This adjustment determines how high the polar axis will point above the horizon. For example, if you live at 40° latitude, the position of Polaris will be 40° above the northern horizon. Remember your latitude measurement need only be approximate; in order to change your latitude by 1° you would have to move your observing position by 70 miles! Polaris should now be in the field of view of an aligned finderscope. Continue making minor adjustments in latitude and azimuth (side to side), centering Polaris in the finder’s cross hairs or low power eyepiece. This is all that is required for a polar alignment good enough to use your telescope’s slow motion controls to easily track a star or planet across the sky. However, in order to take full advantage of the many features of your telescope (such as setting circle and astrophotography capability) a more precise polar alignment will be necessary.<br /><br /><br /> I guess this would work unless you live in Australia or something. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[atticus808]

i guess i should have paid more attention in latitude and longitude in social class. lol<br />ok, so when you polar align, do you technically just align the tripod, but you can move your telescope wherever you want, (what you want to look at) and then it will track?<br />this stuff seems pretty confusing

 

[eric2006]

Yeah, sorta. Rotate the telescope tube in Declination so that the telescope's Declination reads 90° then Tighten the Dec. Lock. Loosen the R.A. Lock, and rotate the Fork Arms to the 00 H.A. position. Using the Azimuth and Latitude controls on the Wedge, center Polaris in the field of view. Do not use the telescope's Declination or Right Ascension controls during this process. This should be close. Now find a northerly star. If a star dips down you are pointing to far east. Drifts up to far West. <br /><br /><br />I'm lazy and just point. But I always lose my star and never find it again. If you are aligned then you just have to turn one knob(Right Ascension) and you can follow the object all night. If you aren't perfectly aligned you will have to re-adjust Declination a few times that night. If you are taking photos you should get it as perfect as possible for exposures.

 

[nevers]

Alignment of a 'scope may sound confussing but don't let it get to you. I found a great link at Orion that explains it all. Here's the link - Polar Alignment @ Orion. The link leads to a movie - it took about 5 minutes to load on my dial-up modem but is well worth the wait.<br /><br />Unless you're going to do Astrophotography, Polar Alignment does not have to be exact.

 

[eric2006]

Is there anything special that one would need to do at the equator???

 

[atticus808]

that video helps a lot<br />thanks<br />i think the same person also made one on collimation<br />http://www.andysshotglass.com/Collimating.html<br />should i get a collimation laser tool if i get the 114 EQ?<br />how often would i collimate it?<br />or should i just get the 90 EQ and not maintain anything?

 

[nevers]

You can, with some practice, collimate either type 'scope with tools provided with the 'scope. (Actually, I don't know if Celestron provides collimation tools with their 'scopes like Orion does.) I would definately go with the 114 EQ Reflector. I think if you got the 90mm Refractor, you would be limited to the Moon, Planets (with lots of ugly "fringing", "purple haze" or chromatic abberation is what it's really called) and a few Messier Objects. The 4 1/2" mirror will make a huge difference on the amount of detail you'll see verses the 3 1/2" lense.<br /><br />In actuallity, collimating either type of sized 'scope will not be something you need to do on a regular basis. If you have the money, get a laser collimator. But, if you have the money to buy a collimator, I'd still suggest you use it towards the purchase of an even bigger 'scope! I've found that collimation really only needs to be adjusted often if you handle you 'scope VERY, VERY roughly or, the mirror is removed after each use and you won't be doing that.<br /><br />If you have problems with collimation, it sounds like the lady at the telescope store would help you adjust it at the shop.

 

[atticus808]

thanks<br />i don't think i need a bigger scope cause this is already around 45 pounds<br />i think i will be getting the 114 EQ<br />will the moon and planets be pretty clear?<br />and does the telescope come assembled or will i have to put the mirrors in myself and collimate it first? <br />and about the polar alignment, my city is at 53.55 latitude<br />so what if i go camping like 200 km our of the city in the middle of the forest?

 

[nevers]

The Moon will be breathtaking. You should be able to see detail in Jupiter, Saturn and some in Mars respectively. You're lucky, M42 - The Great Orion Nebula, is up high in the sky and it will knock your socks off! There are many other Messier Objects that your 'scope will do fine on. A 4 1/2" 'scope should be capable of seeing all 110 Messier Objects and a few NGC's. Dark skies will be your telescopes friend.<br /><br />Your 'scope should come with the mirror already assemble in the tube - I've never seen a 'scope sold that needs mirror assembly. I'm sure you'll have to put some of it together but I'm also sure you'll get directions included as well as directions about collimation. I'll be it will not need it.<br /><br />If you set your 'scope up for your lattitude and you travel east or west, the lattitude will stay the same. It's the north and south travel you have to worry about. I don't know how many miles 200km are - again, I don't think it would be a big deal unless you're doing Astrophotography or travelling great distances.

 

[atticus808]

so which one would you go for all in all involving the price also?<br />90 EQ Refractor $329 Canadian ($282 American)<br />114 EQ Reflector $279 ($239 American)<br />should i just go for the refractor since i would need tools to collimate the reflector? conserdering the reflector would cost almost the same with the tools?<br />or should i go with the reflector for it's aperture even though i have to collimate which i hear is not very hard?

 

[atticus808]

i don't think the dealership that i'm going to sells Orion products<br />and it seems pretty enormous<br />i also don't like how the pod is wood<br />so i'm deciding between the 2 i chose <br />and would distant objects like galaxies have a smiliar appearance in the 90 EQ and 114 EQ?

 

[nevers]

Hi Atticus - <br /><br />Eddie is totally correct about the XT6. And, if you would consider it (the cost is certainly nice!), don't worry about it's size or the wooden base - they too are not that big a deal.<br /><br />My best suggestion is to find people in your area and go to a Star Party. Most clubs welcome newcomers. There, you can compare different kinds of 'scopes. What would be really cool is if your dealer would stay a little late and set the two 'scopes up side by side. Take a look through both at Venus or Mars and then the Andromeda Galaxy - you'll find the answers you are looking for with your own eyes.

 

[tplank]

Does anyone have any experience buying factory 2nds from Orion? They are not discounted that much but say the defects are only cosmetic. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>

 

[atticus808]

but i plan to bring it if i go camping<br />and if i were to bring the XT6 the only thing that i could bring with it is like a cooler since the XT6 would take up most of the car<br />lol<br />i don't know if i want to pay 50 dollars more to not have to collimate and have better quality pictures or to pay 50 less to collimate and have a bigger aperture<br />there is an up and down side of it<br />Eddie said 1 inch isn't a big difference, but how big of a difference is it? like looking at a star that is at magnitude 10<br />how bright would it appear it both scopes?

 

[nevers]

Hi tplank - <br /><br />Yes, I have bought many items as "seconds" from Orion. They might not be so much "cosmetically blemished" as opposed to "returned" items because somebody didn't like them. I've never noticed so much as a fingerprint on the items I bought from the "clearance" section. The discount is usually like getting free shipping or better.

 

[nevers]

Hi Atticus - <br /><br />Rather then looking at the difference in inches (because certainly more is better) look at it between the "f" ratio of the two 'scopes. The 90mm is f/11 and the 114mm is f/8. The larger the "f" number, the narrower the view. With the 90mm you will be getting less aperture and a narrower field of view. With the 114mm you will get more aperture and a wider field of view - and one that can be reduced with simple constuction paper and tape and get the same results as the f/11 90mm. I know, it may sound confussin at first that's why I still say go with the bigger 'scope and stay away from the false coloring the refractor will give you. In reality, I don't think either 'scope will pull out mag 10 stars but the 114mm would stand a better chance. It will gather more light to see nebula and structure in galaxies. It will give you a wider view of objects and still have a somewhat better view with the object your viewing with a nice surrounding background of stars. Plus, the difference between the 'scopes is not just one inch, but nearly two inches!

 

[tplank]

NEVERS,<br /><br />Thanks for the info. I shall be a proud XT owner shortly... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>

 

[atticus808]

alright<br />i think i'm leaning towards the 114 EQ<br />i'm just worried about collimation<br />and would the mirrors crack during shipping since it's winter? (there's snow up here)<br />or will the mirrors withstand temperature?<br />also how do you know when the mirrors need to be adjusted to temperture? <br />would i have to polar align the the XT6?<br />is there an online manual for the XT6?<br />no right?

 

[petepan]

Atticus808,<br />Don't be overly concerned with collimation, when your 'scope is new, is should be fairly well aligned anyway. My 114EQ has had it's mirror in and out, changed focuser, (from .96" to 1.25") moved the secondry mirror around, all sorts of stuff, and mostly everything was lined up by eye. When i finally did get hold of a collimation tube, i was stunned at how far out alignment everything was, yet, was still getting good views. Naturally, when i aligned it all, i did noticed a marked improvement. My point is, these 'scope's are very forgiving for collimation. By the time you finally get to buy a collimation tube, your 'scope will still be in good condition.<br />Dont worry about the cold, it should have no adverse effect on your mirror and you don't have to adjust the mirrors because of the cold. The only time you need do anything is when you go from a warm house to outside cold, just let the 'scope equalise with the outside temp.<br /><br />I'm not familiar with the XT6, if it is a equatorial mount, then yes you do need to polar align it, but for you guys in Northern Hemisphere, i envy you, Polaris makes it so easy to do.<br /><br />Cheers

 

[atticus808]

hi Petepan<br />could you tell me a little more about the 114 EQ since you have one?<br />such as how difficult it is to assemble, etc.?

 

[atticus808]

ALRIGHT<br />so i called in to order the 114 EQ AND THEN the lady asdked me if i wanted the Antares 1149 Reflector<br />for 100 dollars cheaper cause it's a Christmas special<br />i have no idea what that is and if that brand is good<br />what do you guys think?