Alpha Centauri system might harbour Earth twin

Philotas · Mar 7, 2008

From SDChttp://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080307-another-earth.htmlUniversity of California, Santa Cruz graduate student Javiera Guedes used computer simulations of planet formation to show that terrestrial planets are likely to have formed around one of the stars in the Alpha Centauri star system, our closest stellar neighbors. Guedes' model showed planets forming around the star Alpha Centauri B (its sister star, Proxima Centauri, is actually our nearest neighbor) in what is called the "habitable zone," or the region around a star where liquid water can exist on a planet's surface. ...According to Laughlin, five years of observations using a dedicated telescope would be needed to detect an Earth-like planet around Alpha Centauri B. If astronomers do dedicate substantial resources to detecting an Earth-like planet, this is the star to focus on, he added. "We're advocating that there's a strong possibility a planet could be there," he said.  Another Earth waiting for discovery this close? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

weeman · Mar 7, 2008

Yes. And if we were to find an Earth-like planet just 4 lightyears away, imagine how many more are out there! Two life-bearing planets so close together should certainly increase the odds of ET life elsewhere in the cosmos. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

JonClarke · Mar 7, 2008

This is very cool!  I can see Alpha Centauri most clear nights, and the binary is easily resolved with even a very small telescope.If the stars of Alpha Centauri formed at the ame time from the same nebula, why would the class K Alpah Centauri B have a higher metallicity than the larger (and more sun like class G) Alpha Centauri A?Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

ariesr · Mar 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is very cool!  I can see Alpha Centauri most clear nights, and the binary is easily resolved with even a very small telescope.If the stars of Alpha Centauri formed at the ame time from the same nebula, why would the class K Alpah Centauri B have a higher metallicity than the larger (and more sun like class G) Alpha Centauri A?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> The so called Planet Finder due to be launched soon can be used to focus on that area.

TachyonShield · Mar 8, 2008

Just imagine if there IS an Earth like planet there and it harbours animal life. I think people would get scared, it would mean the chances of intelligent life out there could be very very common. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------ In 1 Billion years the Earths Oceans will evaporate and as a result the Earth will be scorched from a greenhouse effect. We'd better get off this rock sooner rather than later. </div>

qso1 · Mar 8, 2008

I just finished a graphic novel about a human journey (As realistic as my limited knowledge allows) to an earthlike world orbiting Alpha Centauri "A". A GN I have been working on since January 2006 and utilizing ideas I have had for much longer. One of the differences is that I selected the "A" star for the earthlike world. One of the similarities is that I eventually showed the system and the "A" system is composed of one rather small gas giant, the earthlike world, and another rocky planet. The "B" system has two planets but the whole system has not been fully mapped out because so much focus was put on the earthlike world. Of course, this is only a graphic novel.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

baulten · Mar 8, 2008

Though it's interesting to see that planetary formation models show there should be terrestrial planets, I think most scientists already assumed this, due to the high metallicity of the system.  Hopefully, though, one is indeed an earth-like planet.  That close would be very nice indeed.

qso1 · Mar 8, 2008

Having an earthlike world in the Alpha Centauri system would make it a heck of a lot easier to propose human missions to such a world. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

TachyonShield · Mar 10, 2008

Having an earthlike world in the Alpha Centauri system would make it a heck of a lot easier to propose human missions to such a world. I think that should an Earth like habitable world be discovered so close to Earth every space agency would get a well needed boost in their budget, we'd have people on Mars within 2 years and plans would be on the table for probe missions to Alpha Centauri. Not long after there'd probably be designs on the table for some form of generational ship for colonisation (should the probe data send back good results). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------ In 1 Billion years the Earths Oceans will evaporate and as a result the Earth will be scorched from a greenhouse effect. We'd better get off this rock sooner rather than later. </div>

bearack · Mar 10, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Having an earthlike world in the Alpha Centauri system would make it a heck of a lot easier to propose human missions to such a world. I think that should an Earth like habitable world be discovered so close to Earth every space agency would get a well needed boost in their budget, we'd have people on Mars within 2 years and plans would be on the table for probe missions to Alpha Centauri. Not long after there'd probably be designs on the table for some form of generational ship for colonisation (should the probe data send back good results). Posted by TachyonShield</DIV>LOL, this is so Earth 2 with the new information and the political system as it is today.......It's like the creator of Earth 2 could see the future

Philotas · Mar 10, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Having an earthlike world in the Alpha Centauri system would make it a heck of a lot easier to propose human missions to such a world. I think that should an Earth like habitable world be discovered so close to Earth every space agency would get a well needed boost in their budget, we'd have people on Mars within 2 years and plans would be on the table for probe missions to Alpha Centauri. Not long after there'd probably be designs on the table for some form of generational ship for colonisation (should the probe data send back good results). Posted by TachyonShield</DIV> Personally I think the fascinating about this is the opportunity to study an alien solar system this close. Sending people to other solar systems is probably going to be beyond our lifetimes anyhow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

qso1 · Mar 11, 2008

Not long after there'd probably be designs on the table for some form of generational ship for colonisation (should the probe data send back good results). Posted by TachyonShieldI kind of laid out that sort of scenario in my GNs. One difference in the spacecraft design is that it can serve as a generational or two way ship. But I didn't address which type of mission the first one was. The earthlike planet in my scenario was discovered in 2007 (I wrote the original discovery in the first of the GNs in 2003) and imaged in 2011. This prompted a nearly century and a half quest to get humans to this world. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

qso1 · Mar 11, 2008

Personally I think the fascinating about this is the opportunity to study an alien solar system this close. Sending people to other solar systems is probably going to be beyond our lifetimes anyhow. Posted by philotasYour right about that! I'd like to live long enough just to see that much. I'm 52 so I won't see interstellar travel in my lifetime unless some miracle takes place. I consider the story I wrote to be wildly optomistic in that the first humans to the earthlike world in my story leave in the year 2156. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

eburacum45 · Mar 11, 2008

Note that an astronomer's definition of Earth-like is not that same as a science-fiction writer's. Earth-like is often used to mean any terrestrial world, so that would include Mercury, Mars, Venus as well as the Earth.Recently some media reports have even described GL581c as earth-like; this is a planet which receives more irradiance from its star than Venus does from the Sun, and so if it has any water on its surface at all it will be in the form of superheated steam. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ---------------------------------------------------------------http://orionsarm.com http://thestarlark.blogspot.com/ </div>

qso1 · Mar 11, 2008

Note that an astronomer's definition of Earth-like is not that same as a science-fiction writer's. Earth-like is often used to mean any terrestrial world, so that would include Mercury, Mars, Venus as well as the Earth.Recently some media reports have even described GL581c as earth-like; this is a planet which receives more irradiance from its star than Venus does from the Sun, and so if it has any water on its surface at all it will be in the form of superheated steam. Posted by eburacum45Thats correct. This is an issue that I think is going to recieve more attention if we get word there is an earthlike world orbiting some star. More like earth than mars or venus is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

elguapoguano · Mar 11, 2008

Ok, forget the term "earthlike" and lets speculate that if a concentrated effort was thrown on Alpha Centauri and a "habitable" world was indeed found. How long do you think it would take us to invent a propulsion system to get us there in a reasonable time frame?After all, necessity is the mother of invention....  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let your sig line incite a gay thread ;>) </div>

weeman · Mar 11, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Ok, forget the term "earthlike" and lets speculate that if a concentrated effort was thrown on Alpha Centauri and a "habitable" world was indeed found. How long do you think it would take us to invent a propulsion system to get us there in a reasonable time frame?After all, necessity is the mother of invention....  Posted by elguapoguano</DIV> Hmmm, as of right now I'd say we wouldn't have the propulsion technology at all within the 21st century. Maybe more like the 22nd or 23rd century. However, I can't say for sure if this is correct, I don't work for JPL

As of right now, it takes several months for us to get to Mars with our best known forms of propulsion. So, getting to an object that is measured in lightyears will obviously take a very long time to achieve! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

robnissen · Mar 11, 2008

"we'd have people on Mars within 2 years" Uh ... NO.  If we had pictures of Alpha Centaurians jumping up and down and waving signs, we still would not get to Mars within 2 years.  We have no ship capable of getting humans to Mars, and in the absolute best case scenario, could not have one within 7 years.More importantly, if we discovered a rocky planet of earth size in AC, it would unfortunately have very little impact on NASA's budge. I wish it would, but the general public and politicians just don't care about extra-solar planets than do the people of this forum.

PistolPete · Mar 11, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This is very cool!  I can see Alpha Centauri most clear nights, and the binary is easily resolved with even a very small telescope.If the stars of Alpha Centauri formed at the ame time from the same nebula, why would the class K Alpah Centauri B have a higher metallicity than the larger (and more sun like class G) Alpha Centauri A?Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>I couldn't say for certain, but my hypothesis would be that since Alpha Centauri A is the more massive of the pair, then it should have ignited first.  As its stellar winds cast off its accretion disk, the still protostellar Alpha Centauri B might have been able to grab some of this stuff, giving it a higher metallicity.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai </div>

qso1 · Mar 11, 2008

I agree the public at large could care less about exoworlds in general. But like Apollo, Viking, Pathfinder and Mars rovers...certain NASA missions capture the publics imagination albiet briefly, as in a few years max.Detecting a habitable eartlike planet would IMO, capture public imagination in a way not seen since Apollo. There would be something about the mystique of such a world. Is it inhabited by human like beings? Could we go there? Movie makers would have a field day with such a planet.The movie Pitch Black opens with a CGI sequence of a star similar to an actual system (TMC-1 IIRC) imaged by Hubble a few years before the movie popularized the system. A system originally thought to contain an ejected planet that later turned out to be a non related distant star. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

JonClarke · Mar 11, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I couldn't say for certain, but my hypothesis would be that since Alpha Centauri A is the more massive of the pair, then it should have ignited first.  As its stellar winds cast off its accretion disk, the still protostellar Alpha Centauri B might have been able to grab some of this stuff, giving it a higher metallicity.  Posted by PistolPete</DIV>That certainly sounds plausible. thanks. What is interesting about that then in any man sequence binary system where the stars of different sizes and widely spaced the smaller star is more likley to have rocky planets.  of course this does not rule out rocky planets round A centauri A, either.cheersJon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Mar 11, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That certainly sounds plausible. thanks. What is interesting about that then in any man sequence binary system where the stars of different sizes and widely spaced the smaller star is more likley to have rocky planets.  of course this does not rule out rocky planets round A centauri A, either.cheersJon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>AFAIK, it is thought that the Alpha Centauri system is somewhat older than our Solar System, being some 6.2 GYO as against our Sun's 4.6 GYO.If an Earthlike planet exists, perhaps already it has become too hot, unless it orbits further out than 1 AU. If so, than an older Earth like planet would be most interesting. How would life have continued to evolved, if it started?I assume that the existence of gas giants have been ruled out, because if either Alpha Centauri A or B had a Jupiter like planet, we would have found it by now (after all, we have found many orbiting stars much further away)?Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

weeman · Mar 12, 2008

I really find it amazing that people are not interested with space exploration. It's the Final Frontier! Space exploration may lead to a long and promising future for the human race. Maybe I just think everyone is crazy because I make astronomy a part of my life every day! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

PistolPete · Mar 12, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>AFAIK, it is thought that the Alpha Centauri system is somewhat older than our Solar System, being some 6.2 GYO as against our Sun's 4.6 GYO.If an Earthlike planet exists, perhaps already it has become too hot, unless it orbits further out than 1 AU... Posted by 3488</DIV>I doubt that as Alpha Cent. B is smaller than our Sun and therefore has a longer lifespan.Using the equation: Lifetime of star (in years) = 10 billion (lifetime of Sun) x Mass of the star (in solar masses) / Luminosity of the star (in solar luminosities), and using the data for A Cent. B: M=0.907, L=0.5, I calculated that the lifetime of A Cent. B should be approximately 18.14 billion years.  So this means that A Cent. B should be through less than half its life cycle.What this might mean is that in about a billion years, when the Earth becomes uninhabitable due to our Sun becoming a red giant, A Cent. B will still be stable for several billion more years.That assumes, of course, that 1 billion years from now there will still be a species on the planet that could be described as "homo sapiens."  Seeing as how it has been only approximately 550 million years since the beginning of the Cambrian era, I find this highly unlikely.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai </div>

3488 · Mar 12, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I doubt that as Alpha Cent. B is smaller than our Sun and therefore has a longer lifespan.Using the equation: Lifetime of star (in years) = 10 billion (lifetime of Sun) x Mass of the star (in solar masses) / Luminosity of the star (in solar luminosities), and using the data for A Cent. B: M=0.907, L=0.5, I calculated that the lifetime of A Cent. B should be approximately 18.14 billion years.  So this means that A Cent. B should be through less than half its life cycle.What this might mean is that in about a billion years, when the Earth becomes uninhabitable due to our Sun becoming a red giant, A Cent. B will still be stable for several billion more years.That assumes, of course, that 1 billion years from now there will still be a species on the planet that could be described as "homo sapiens."  Seeing as how it has been only approximately 550 million years since the beginning of the Cambrian era, I find this highly unlikely.  Posted by PistolPete</DIV>Cheers PistolPete.I guess I got confused & used info for Alpha Cen A instead. Yes A Cen B is somewhat less massive than our Sun & has a hugely longer stable life.I think my doubt about either star having Gas Giants still stands.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Alpha Centauri system might harbour Earth twin

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