ANGRY AT NASA!

[mr_mark]

:twisted: Ok, I'm angry. I'm angry that NASA has had no direction. First, they develop a direction to go to the Moon and then to Mars. It seemed reasonable enough, just get the funding. Then Bush won't give Nasa the funding to do the job. Then Obama comes in and shows a complete disregard for the agency and may not only not give them a budget but also completely change the focus of the agency as a whole. We the people of this country who support Nasa and spaceflight as taxpayers are mad. We are mad at getting played. We are mad at seeing a lack of leadership and I'm really mad at former astronauts such as Buzz Aldrin who don't know when they are getting played saying "we need to go to Mars" and the current administration uses that as a means of dropping the lunar program with no intention of ever getting the budget to go to Mars. Right now we are all a bunch of suckers and I'm sick of it. The only hope I see is in the hands of private space, with visionaries such as Elon Musk and Richard Branson leading the way, God bless them. I feel that a lot of us here have to vent. This is the place to do it.

 

[brandbll]

I want you to get up, go to your window, open it and scream, "I'M AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!"

 

[tanstaafl76]

I suggest a deep breath, a cold beer, and some metaphysical musings that make you realize it doesn't really matter anyway :mrgreen:

 

[mental_avenger]

I didn’t vote for Obama so don’t blame me. Maybe all the members of Space.com can get together and sponsor an astronaut for President. How about Sally Ride for President. She helped start Space.com and I am sure she would make certain NASA was not only funded properly but given the green light to go ahead with both Lunar and Mars missions.

Sally Ride for President!!

 

[Payloadcontroller]

Wait, wait, wait.

NASA comes up with a plan to go back to the Moon and then on to Mars.

Two consecutive admins/Congresses yank around their budget to the point where they're stymied and hamstrung.

And you're angry at NASA?!?

How is this NASA's fault??? They're bloody busting their nether regions to do it.

I was working the program when Challenger blew. Wanna know something? I lay that at Congress' feet. If they hadn't kept cutting the budget and cutting the budget, the original shuttle design would've been implemented and NEVER would a solid rocket have been strapped to a manned vehicle.

If you're going to get mad - and I don't blame you - please get mad at the right people.

 

[nimbus]

What about the current Ares program seemingly bogging itself down into mud? Is that Congress too, and if so, how? An honest unassuming question.

 

[ThereIWas2]

Yes, the problems of Ares can be placed on Congress as well. When Congress provided the funding they attached major strings. Specifically, that however NASA gets to the moon it has to use all the same subcontractors, with the same employees, working in the same factories, in the same congressional districts, as the shuttle program. That pretty much means it has to be built out of Shuttle parts regardless of how well suited they are to the task. The delays have arisen largely as the people trying to pull this off keep running into fundamental laws of physics that say it will not work as the original back-of-an-envelope design said it would.

In the eyes of Congress, Ares is a jobs program. That is a fundamental mismatch with what actually needs to be done.

President Obama is looking at all this in the way I would hope he would, and in the same way he looked at the F-22 (which Congress finally canceled).

 

[seth_381]

First calm down and don't be as angry with NASA but be also angry w/ government that provides funding. But really the government at this point can't afford to blow $35 Billion + on a spacecraft when people can't live. What I finally realized is NASA is dead almost and I think it will be up to commercial companies to get us into space and to the moon & mars.

 

[CalliArcale]

Wait, wait, wait.

PAYLOADCONTROLLER!!!!!

*tacklepouncehuggles*

It has been YEARS!!!! It's fabulous to see you here again!

*tacklepouncehuggles again for good measure*

Man, it's good to have you back! ;-)

 

[clint_dreamer]

NASA, like always, is doing what they can with what they have. Lay the blame at the United States Government for not giving proper funding. One thing you have to realize is that the United States is going through a very significant time in its history right now. The current administration inherited the worst mess the United States has ever seen from the previous administration and there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed before they start putting huge percentages on the nation's budget into manned space flight. Bush's promise of the Moon and then Mars was simply to get people to believe in the space program again once the Columbia disaster happened. By making those promises and not coming through with the funding right from the start he backed NASA into a corner which it cannot escape from now. Now a lot of people are mad a NASA. There is no faith in Ares. But the real blame should be directed to the ones that made the promise without following though.

While I am a huge supporter of manned space flight, there are simply too many issues that need to be addressed within the United States before that kind of funding can be given. Obama is showing that he has priorities and is addressing the most pressing issues first which I commend him for.

 

[tanstaafl76]

The current administration inherited the worst mess the United States has ever seen from the previous administration

Still buying that line, are we?

 

[clint_dreamer]

The current administration inherited the worst mess the United States has ever seen from the previous administration

Still buying that line, are we?

I assume this isn't the place to discuss but...of course I believe that. And I'm not "buying a line." I firmly believe that with the evidence I have read. You can't spend money like there is no tomorrow and be responsible for this this generations Vietnam without screwing over the next guy in line to take over.

 

[tanstaafl76]

I assume this isn't the place to discuss but...of course I believe that. And I'm not "buying a line." I firmly believe that with the evidence I have read. You can't spend money like there is no tomorrow and be responsible for this this generations Vietnam without screwing over the next guy in line to take over.

We're spending more now than we ever have before, dollar amounts that will dwarf what has been spent on Afghanistan and Iraq (neither of which are even remotely comparable to the Vietnam conflict) and if you let them get away with always blaming their predecessor, yes you are indeed buying a line.

 

[clint_dreamer]

I assume this isn't the place to discuss but...of course I believe that. And I'm not "buying a line." I firmly believe that with the evidence I have read. You can't spend money like there is no tomorrow and be responsible for this this generations Vietnam without screwing over the next guy in line to take over.

We're spending more now than we ever have before, dollar amounts that will dwarf what has been spent on Afghanistan and Iraq (neither of which are even remotely comparable to the Vietnam conflict) and if you let them get away with always blaming their predecessor, yes you are indeed buying a line.

Look I'm not gonna turn a NASA thread into a debate about the US economy. Just check when Obama came into power and you'll see that all the problems of today existed well before then. Ok? Good.

 

[radarredux]

Don't forget, the funding shortfall has occurred under both Congresses and White Houses led by both Republicans and Democrats. Public opinion polls, for decades, have generally supported NASA (i.e., feels good about them) but not increasing its funding levels. Even at the height of the Apollo program, polls showed Americans were against spending the money on it.

Reality is what it is. Short of any credible leap frogging of America in space (e.g., China or Russia making serious advances beyond LEO), I don't think you will see much change.

I would encourage anyone here to join and support the various space groups (i.e., The Mars Society) and support commercialization efforts (i.e., Armadillo Aerospace, SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, Bigelow Aerospace). The groups can be more effective at lobbying Congress than you as an individual can generally be, and the commercialization efforts will hopefully become independent of the funding whims of Congress and the White House.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Just a comment. There's actually a lot af value in writing a real old fashioned snail mail letter to your US Congressperson and Senator. While the big groups may be effective, there's nothing quite like a letter for a constituant to get the attention of a representative. You might not get a reply, but your input will be noticed!

 

[seth_381]

This may seem a little off topic but since there is so much talk about NASA's budget I had an idea a long time ago that others probably had. The idea is have companies like SpaceX,Virgin Galactic, Ect team up with NASA or themselves and cut the costs in between them all. But then say if you get to the missions say one is only for NASA they pay the launch costs only, but if it is NASA and SpaceX then mission costs get cut between. It was just something that I thought could make a shuttle possible but probably could be applied to Project Constellation or any program for that matter.

 

[Elbeau]

Angry?...no...just disappointed.

NASA consists of thousands and thousands of individuals...some doing a good job, some doing a bad job. The biggest beef I have with any of them is with the high-up management and politicians from years ago who threw away the Saturn V and replaced it with the shuttle. Everybody since then is suffering under that umbrella. Then...the modern "leaders" decide the only way to fix NASA's space program is to spend more money "reusing shuttle technology" on the constellation program that it would take to create a better program from scratch....or better yet, to resurrect the Saturn V...the most worthy craft (and inexpensive compared to the shuttle) that we have ever flown.

We've been stuck in LEO with a cool-looking monster of a craft for WAY too long. Some real leadership digging us out of this trench would be appreciated...before the Chinese beat us to it.

 

[Syrio]

The title asks are we angry at NASA's direction. What direction? I am angry at the lack of executive leadership in the past 40+ years resulting in a lack of direction.

 

[captbonez]

Angry at Nasa?
Good heavens, whatever for? Have we forgotten the monumental achievents? Hubble? Spritzer? New Horizon? How bout the ISS? the mar's rovers... for the love of all that is good, Nasa certainly has acheived a great deal and expanded our knowledge base.
I have scrutinized nasa's current direction and I find it very logical. A definite improvement over past missions and the budgets they require. Constellation is a beautiful program.
People watch too much scifi. Getting to Mars is infintely more difficult then the moon. The technologies for such an endeavor arent even in existence......until Nasa invents them.
Nah, this is one scientist who approves. And I praise Obama's selection of administrators. Finally! Scientists in Scientific positions!

 

[Astrochimp]

I am not angry with NASA, more like disappointed.

The Space shuttle was conceived during the Apollo Program. That was back in the late 60’s. The shuttle program was formally launched on January 5, 1972, when President Nixon announced that NASA would proceed with the development of a reusable space shuttle system. The final design was less costly to build and less technically ambitious than earlier fully reusable designs. The initial design parameters included a larger external fuel tank, which would have been carried to orbit, where it could be used as a section of a space station, but this idea was killed due to budgetary and political considerations.

I am amazed that in the intervening years between 1972 and 2008 that nothing was done to develop a second-generation shuttle. In the last few years or so all NASA has been able to come up with is the Constellation / Ares Program. While I am by no means well educated on the flight characteristics of the SRB Stack, from what I have read, it would be like riding a Jack-Hammer into space, even with the shock absorber / inertial dampers that they are planning to build and install.

I find it hard to believe that in 36 years that all they could come up with are the Ares I and Ares V rockets.

As for the Orion Capsule, I am taking a wait and see attitude. It DOES look like a return to the past and Apollo even with the increase in size. what happened to the LOL (land on land) capability that they had first envisioned. The fact that they have decided to down size the crew from 6 to 4 is worrisome.

Also, where is the Generation II Space shuttle that should be SSTO (single stage to orbit)

 

[elroy_jetson]

Re: Why be angry?

Congress sets NASA's budget. Southern states like Florida and Texas benefit greatly from tax dollars going to NASA. It is no wonder that Texan G. W. Bush proposed the Moon/Mars initiative, and that the Constellation program was started under his watch. Northern states, like Obama's Illinois and my own home state of Minnesota, get very little direct benefit from taxes directed to NASA. If NASA funding meant more jobs nationwide (real jobs, not pork barrel spending to appease legislators), there would be more support nationwide. Now I'm a strong supporter of building a space faring civilization, so don't take this as whining - I'm just reporting how it is. Here in Minnesota, a very high percentage of people think space is a total waste of money. Minnesota legislators reflect that sentiment in both houses of Congress - whether they're Democrats or Republicans. My guess would be that the same holds true in other states that receive little or no direct benefit from NASA spending.

Being angry with NASA is pointless. I would suggest that NASA engage in better public relations though. They could start by moving mission control to a northern state - satellite transmitters and receivers don't benefit from the rotational momentum that necessitates southern launch facilities. Besides, we never have hurricanes in Minnesota!

 

[krash]

I am not mad at NASA at all.

They seem to do the best they can with their budget.

By the way, has any other President in the history of our country ever spent $1 Trillion, 800 billion in their first 7 months in office.

$800 billion for a worthless stimulus package that will only amount to a handful of low paying jobs at the most. $1 Trillion for Socialized Medicine (which probably won't pass anyway--so that is good).

I don't know, but for $800 Billion, I would expect at least 1 million high paying jobs. Perhaps I just have higher expectations.

If they are going to spend like my wife on steroids, I'd like to see at least $350 billion go to NASA (above and beyond what they already get).

 

[krash]

The current administration inherited the worst mess the United States has ever seen from the previous administration

Still buying that line, are we?

I assume this isn't the place to discuss but...of course I believe that. And I'm not "buying a line." I firmly believe that with the evidence I have read. You can't spend money like there is no tomorrow and be responsible for this this generations Vietnam without screwing over the next guy in line to take over.

Brainwashed.
:lol:

 

[Delphinus100]

This will go a long way toward explaining how we got into the situation we're in...and how best to get out of it:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicati ... rest-of-us

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/docLib/20 ... imberg.pdf

http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=20686

http://www.hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index ... emid=14072

...Remember, not everyone is on the same page with regard to what 'the job' really is. Or what it should be.