Any serious Soyuz/Progress upgrades coming?

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mrmorris

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The Digital Soyuz will be quite an upgrade, yes. Supposedly will allow enough volume and mass reductions for a fourth passenger. The Progress lift capacity will likewise be increaed, although I've seen no figures.
 
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JonClarke

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Four will be very cosy in a Soyuz! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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flynn

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As cosy as Voskhod 1? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#800080">"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring" - <strong>Chuck Palahniuk</strong>.</font> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Not if the upgrade means less equipment sharing that space. I seem to recall something about the capacity of Soyuz being reduced to 2 in the 70's to make room for extra backup safety gear. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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gunsandrockets

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"Do the Russians plan any serious upgrades to the Soyuz or Progress vehicles?"<br /><br />The original Russian hope to replace Soyuz with Kliper is dead.<br /><br />On the other hand I bet there is a real chance we will see Progress replaced with the Parom orbital tug. If so, the implications for COTS and Orion are interesting to contemplate.
 
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JonClarke

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Yep, much cosier - and they crew will be wearing suits.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Here, today is Valentine's Day. So, in honor of that, we could sell 4-occupant Soyuz tickets in pairs. Any buyers? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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mrmorris

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<font color="orange">"...will allow enough volume and mass reductions for a fourth passenger...." </font><br /><br /><font color="yellow">"Might that be a bad translation? "</font><br /><br />Easily. I thought I'd read four people, but I have trouble even finding articles that I count as 'official' for the Digital Soyuz. I tried to find one to link to the previous post and gave up.
 
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shoogerbrugge

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It is indeed as mentioned that you only need a pilot and that the other ones can be deadheaders. There is no way you could fit a fourth person without completly redesigning the whole vehicle<br /><br />Now the question I have is whether they are going to standardise the soyuz LV, for example instead of using the current 4 direvatives, only use two, one for LEO and one for *other* missions.
 
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thereiwas

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I hadn't seen that Kliper is dead. Do you have a link to an article?
 
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themanwithoutapast

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The digitalization of Soyuz will be more in the class of the change between Soyuz-TM to Soyuz-TMA. This will not create a 4-seat spacecraft.<br /><br />Apart from the digitalization project which has been going on for quite some time now, there are indeed plans for a really new vehicle based on Soyuz. This is what is called ACTS or CSTS - a project currently in a study phase. This project requires a minimum crew capactiy of 4. What the project is basically about is, how to build a Soyuz spacecraft that takes advantage of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle upgrade program. Soyuz 2-1b already enhanced LEO capacity by nearly 1.2tons. Later upgrades (commonly labelled Soyuz 2-3) will enhace LEO capacity further (design specs say 11tons but could be less). So basically the question is, you have the old Soyuz spacecraft and a launcher that is capable of bringing larger mass to orbit. That means you can enlarge the descend capsule and the orbital module as well as modernize the vehicle. <br /><br />ACTS (CSTS) is not something that I would deem to be a current active project right now. It is in a study phase. And with all studies, it is doomed to get approval at some point, in this case the ESA memberstate conference 2008 and approval of the Russian authorities as well. <br /><br />ACTS is NOT a counterprogram to the VSE. ACTS is just ESA trying to convince its memberstates that it is wiser to invest in a Russian-European manned vehicle and spend money within ESA memberstates than buy seats on Russian manned vehicles. If ESA can convince its memberstates will be partly a matter of funding and a matter on how good France, Germany and Italy (the members running the show at ESA) can negotiate who does what in this program.
 
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holmec

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That article didn't say Kliper was dead. But funding for it is definitely up in the European air. <br /><br />Yet with Europe looking at the the 2nd space race, France and Germany might be looking at the bigger Soyuz craft. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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gunsandrockets

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"That article didn't say Kliper was dead."<br /><br />Yes. It did.<br /><br />Excerpted from the article...<br /><br />"2005 December: European officials reject a proposal for ESA's involvement in the development of the Kliper."<br /><br />"2006 June 21-22: ESA’s ruling council, which met at the agency’s headquarters in Paris, France, on June 21 and 22, 2006 made a decision to embark on a two-year study in cooperation with Russia on possible development of spacecraft capable of reaching lunar orbit. The program was designated the Advanced Crew Transportation System, ACTS."<br /><br />The Russians tried to find financing by offering a deal to the Europeans but the Europeans rejected Kliper. Shortly after that the Russians rejected Kliper too...<br /><br />http://www.russianspaceweb.com/kliper_history.html<br /><br />"Deferral of the program" <br /><br />"On July 19, 2006, Russian space agency, Roskosmos, announced that it deferred the development of the new manned spacecraft until the next stage in the modernization of the nation's manned transport system. The agency's statement hinted that RKK Energia proposals for the Kliper spacecraft and Khrunichev's concept of the TKS-based capsule required the development of launch vehicles (Soyuz-2-3 and Angara-3 respectively), which Russian government would not be able to fund within 2006-2015 timeframe. The NPO Molniya's proposal for the development of an air-launched vehicle was rejected on the grounds that it involved the Antonov-224 Mriya carrier aircraft manufactured in the former Soviet republic of Ukraine, while Russian government wanted all system contractors to be located inside Russia." <br /><br />"In the meantime, the agency accepted alternative proposals from RKK Energia to conduct a radical upgrade of the Soyuz spacecraft, in order to give it the capabilities for circumlunar missions. Roskosmos said that the upgraded Soyuz would allow testing of pros
 
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