Are an infinite number of universes possible?

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newtonian

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Brilliant scientists postulate yes.<br /><br />I suspect no - at least not at any specific point in primordial time. Perhaps a time dependent infinity depending on future infinite time.<br /><br />How can an infinite number of universes exist without infinite energy/matter?<br /><br />What mechanisms do these scientists, such as Hawking on the Science channel today, propose such universes are caused by?<br /><br />Where does the matter/energy come from?<br /><br />Hawking proposes parallel universes - perhaps an infinite number - some without black holes and therefore, even admitting his theory and formula, without loss of information.<br /><br />Others propose an infinite number of universes beyond our universe - but not parallel universes.<br /><br />I believe there are many universes, but not an infinite number of universes, and I do not believe in parallel universes. But I will listen to any of you that do so believe - I am interested in the reasons why you would believe that or something similar.<br /><br />I do not believe an infinite number of universes is possible unless there is an infinite source of energy/matter to incorporate into them.<br /><br />Hawking does not believe in God - what source of infinite energy does he believe in?
 
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kmarinas86

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<font color="yellow">How can an infinite number of universes exist without infinite energy/matter?</font><br /><br />1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + 1/64 + 1/128 ........... = 2
 
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newtonian

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kmarinas86 - OK, mathematically I see your point.<br /><br />However, these scientists do not imply each succeeding universe is smaller in amount of energy and matter such that they become infinitely smaller within some larger finite limit.<br /><br />I see your point though.<br /><br />I suspect God created universes in harmony with cause and effect and the law of conservation of matter and energy.<br /><br />I do not automatically conclude God is infinite in energy - though I consider that possible.<br /><br />If God is not infinite in power, but so much greater in energy than all universes created that one cannot perceive the actual total amount of energy involved, then your suggestion could be the answer!
 
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SpeedFreek

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Consider the photon.<br /><br />Consider that (due to the time dilation and length contraction described by special relativity and observed in particle accelerators) a photon moves instantaneously around the universe (in its own frame of reference). Only observers in an inertial frame of reference see the photon moving at the speed of light.<br /><br />How many photons are there in the universe? Could there be an infinite number of photons? Could there be only 1 photon, everywhere at once?<br /><br />I think we will find that the underlying nature of the universe may end up being so strange to us, that to think of infinite universes requiring infinite energy is a moot point.<br /><br />If we don't know where the energy in THIS universe came from, how can we start thinking about the where the energy came from for infinite universes?<br /><br />Also, as this is not a question about astronomy (observation), but has already deviated into explaining the unexplained and you have started mentioning god again, maybe this thread should be moved to phenomena.<br /><br />Are infinite universes possible? Is our universe possible?<br /><br />These are questions of cosmology (which I think should have a forum for itself!) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>
 
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vogon13

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There is an infinite amount of room in infinity for an infinite number of universes.<br /><br />And since the allowable duration stretches infinitely into the past and future, there is also an infinite amount of time for all the infinite number of universes.<br /><br />There is also no limit on how infinitely small something can be (we can measure down to 10^-40 meters or so) but there is still plenty of real estate available for universes only 10^-1000 meters in diameter.<br /><br /><br />There are also an infinite number of regions beyond the infinite regions discussed in this post.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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newtonian

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speedfreek - ah - I see your user name applies!<br /><br />A flash of light on the subject?<br /><br />Note that the photon is going the speed of light from our frame of reference.<br /><br />I am not sure what would be the case from the photon's frame of reference!<br /><br />But, no, there is not only 1 photon everywhere at once.<br /><br />BTW, what is the diameter of a photon? Does it correspond to its wavelength? But that changes with relative speed. <br /><br />However, none of this involves infinite energy for the creation of infinite universes. <br /><br />A photon has a specific amount of energy equivalent and does involve e=mc^2. Your thought would put infinity into e=mc^2, but infinity is not in said equation.<br /><br />There is, instead, the law of conservation of matter and energy.<br /><br />Now, our universe is not as strange as you think - but I do think it is strange that e=mc^2 and not some other ratio!<br /><br />Are you for all questions asked on Ask the Astronomer to be moved to phenomena if we have trouble finding the answers?<br /><br />To me astronomy does involve searching for answers to unanswered questions, like exactly what the water under the ice in Europa is like, etc., etc.<br /><br />My thread question does involve observations in astronomy and astro-physics, to wit: searching for scientific answers by searching for causes for effects.<br /><br />In fact, astronomy does involve searching for answers to how our universe originated, including not only where its energy came from but also how it came to be as it is.<br /><br />In fact, it is astronomers, among others, who have advanced the hypothesis that there are an infinite number of universes,<br /><br />For example, Stephen Hawking (astro-physics especially) proposed this, specifically parallel universes, to introduce a way for information to be preserved in universes with different properties, specifically those without black holes.<br /><br />What I want to know is on what basis Hawking and other good scie
 
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newtonian

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vogon13 - Why do you say there is an infinite amount of room?<br /><br />Are you talking about 3-d, or are you talking about 4-d factoring in infinite future time?<br /><br />I suspect that there will always be new universes created such that in infinite future time there would be infinite universes.<br /><br />But this is a time-dependent infinity.<br /><br />At any given point in time, notably the present time, there would only be a finite number of universes.<br /><br />There is no limit to how infinitely small something can be?<br /><br />I suspect you are wrong. Certainly, there is a lower limit for the size of a universe to contain atoms or quarks.<br /><br />Unless you are talking about science fiction, of course!
 
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vogon13

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We can measure certain features of our universe down to 10^-40 meters (IIRC).<br /><br />Why couldn't there be structures and details smaller? Just because we don't have a ruler, they don't exist? We seem not to quail before nearly infinitely large vistas, I just contend the universe is just as 'accomodating' in the other direction. <br /><br /><br />Especially if you happen to be an entity only 10^-10,000 meters tall.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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vogon13

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I'm getting vertigo just thinking about this.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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newtonian

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vogon13 - Don't get me wrong. I like science fiction.<br /><br />And sometimes science fiction becomes science fact.<br /><br />I do suspect there is some cause and effect mechanism causing spin in quarks - and this may or may not be simply transfer of angular momentum from something so small that it existed at the origin of our universe to impart spin to both electrons and the universe itself.<br /><br />But that is just speculation!<br /><br />Obviously, Hawking's postulate concerning an infinite number of parallel universes was referring to universes of comparable size to our universe such that infinite energy/matter was implied.<br /><br />I am with you in questioning those who assert the quark is the smallest particle (or whatever) in our universe.<br /><br />Perhaps it is. Perhaps it is not.
 
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