Aviation Safety Concerns

[veritassemper]

The number of people flying continues to grow year by year and of course that means more and more aircraft are reducing the availability of relative air space. This problem is also affecting the number of aircraft movements at airports as more planes want slots.<br /><br />Here is an article which is interesting and may make us all think a bit more about safety procedures. ATC's are very good and even with the most sophisticated equipment available today, are we putting more pressure on them to ensure the safety of greater numbers of planes in a very busy sky?<br /><br />As usual, comments would be most welcome.<br /><br /><b><font color="yellow">Aviation safety concern over near misses By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer <br />Fri Nov 9, 8:48 AM ET<br /> <br />BRUSSELS, Belgium - As global air traffic expands at record rates, experts warn that near misses on the ground at overcrowded airports are becoming one of the most serious safety concerns in civil aviation. <br /><br />ADVERTISEMENT<br /> <br />The danger arises when airports try to alleviate bottlenecks by adding runways. That leads to more taxiways intersecting the runways, raising the risk of accidental incursions — where an aircraft or vehicle becomes a collision hazard by venturing onto a runway being used for takeoffs and landings.<br /><br />"Runway incursions are right at the top of our agenda," said Gideon Ewers, spokesman for the International Federation of Airline Pilots' Associations.<br /><br />"They are happening more and more frequently as air traffic increases and older airport designs struggle to cope. Of course most incursions pass without incident, but when they do occur the results are very bad indeed," Ewers said.<br /><br />The deadliest disaster in aviation history occurred 30 years ago as a result of such an encroachment. The ground collision in 1977 between two fully loaded Boeing 747s in Spain's Canary Islands killed 583 people.<br /><br />Since then, numerous such accidents have ended in traged</font></b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rocketwatcher2001]

I think the Dutch have the right answer by routing traffic around the runways instead of across them. I'm always amazed when I fly into Atlanta, Ga. The ground controllers are busier than the air controllers it seems. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jschaef5]

If your goal is to minimize fuel burn, it is often more efficient to have ground traffic cross runways rather than go around them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[veritassemper]

<b><font color="blue">ROCKETWATCHER2001</font></b><br /><br />I think you are right RW. What the article describes with regard to the system at Schipol airport is to my mind a very safe system. It seems to me that they have covered all the options and if it works without problems then it sounds to me to be a sensible answer to the previous problems incurred. Total safety is paramount whether it is in the air or on the ground.<br /><br /><b><i>JSCHAEF5</i></b> I would have to disagree with you on the fuel comment. Is it more important to use the Dutch system instead of the use of slightly more fuel? I would think so. Perhaps I have misunderstood your thinking so if you still disagree with the Dutch idea please post your argument. I would be sincerely interested.<br /><br />v s<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jschaef5]

"If your goal is to minimize fuel burn" <br /><br />I think that with advances in technology to help routing and give pilots better awareness of all traffic, the risk of hold short operations will go down. I just don't think routing all traffic around the runways is an acceptable solution. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[roguesaint]

For a solution, look no further than Denver International Airport. <br /><br />Case Closed. Next problem? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

That of course is not an option when it comes to airports in tighter spaces, such as EWR and LGA. There is no expansion room available. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[roguesaint]

Raze em, and start over somewhere else. There's a lot of open area in NJ. Get rid of Newark, Laguardia, and JFK, and just put about 12 parallel runways in. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

You are freakin' dreamin.<br /><br />The open areas (large enough to put in 12 parallel runways) in NJ are 2-4 hours away in rush hour traffic. ANd, you would basically use up all the free space left.<br /><br />Believe it or not, some of us like the "Garden State" without trying to trash it even more. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[roguesaint]

That's why you build railway that goes ONLY to the airport. Or just put in a separate lane on the NJ turnpike that ONLY goes to the airport. Sorta like they have the express lanes in Chicago on 94, but once in the lane for the airport you are ONLY going to the airport, there is access to it, but no way off it until you are at the terminal. <br /><br />Shut down MacGuire and use all that area + Ft Dix, and you are good to go. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Nice idea.<br />Ain't gonna happen.<br /><br />Even if you started now (which would be impossible) it would be 25 years before such a project could be completed.<br /><br />Ain't gonna happen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[roguesaint]

I know. That's because people in cahrge of setting up such a project are morons. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Not really. It's more that such an idea is totally impossible in NJ and the nearby NY suburbs. Mybe 50 years ago. There is no space to do these projects.<br />You would have to displace tens of thousands of homeowners; the acquisition of those properties would require at least a billion dollars and many decades, even before construction could be planned.<br /><br />Come here for a visit and I'll show you.<br /><br />If you want my advice, fly into EWR <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[roguesaint]

That's why I suggested to use the MacGuire Fort Dix area, you aren't displacing anyone. Sure it's a dirve, but with an express lane to the airport, not even an hour drive once on the pike. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

You're joking, right?<br /><br />First of all, you still have the problem of displacement, obviously you've never been to NJ.<br /><br />Second, even with a dedicated lane or two, the 1 hour trip to the city is totally unrealistic, if it includes airport traffic.<br /><br />And it would still take a few decades.<br /><br />Just different perspectives, I guess, but I live here. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[roguesaint]

You just have to learn how to drive like a Midwesterner! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[summoner]

I've never been in the area around NYC/NJ so I may be completely fos, but it's always looked to me that there may be a bit of fairly open land to the northwest of the city within fairly reasonable distances. How would building a large international airport out there work? You could build dedicated rail from the city center and it looks like the New York Thruway runs nearby. Sell off the properties at EWR and LGA and use this new airport for only international and connecting flights. Keep JFK for dedicated NYC traffic. I'm sure there's problems with this but I love planning. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <br /><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="width:271px;background-color:#FFF;border:1pxsolid#999"><tr><td colspan="2"><div style="height:35px"><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/htmlSticker1/language/www/US/MT/Three_Forks.gif" alt="" height="35" width="271" style="border:0px" /></div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Rule # 1 of driving.<br /><br />Don't hit anything.<br /><br />Rule 1A:<br /><br />You cant go faster than the cars in front of you.<br /><br />When it's a 1 hour delay to the GWB, it's a 1 hour delay.<br /><br />When it's a 2 hour delay, that starts at EWR, 16 miles away, it's two hours. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[usn_skwerl]

You cannot shut down Mcguire!!! It's bad enough all of the the reservists from Willow Grove now have to go to Mcguire because they're shutting the grove DOWN, and now you wanna shut McG down too? dude...seriously!<br /><br />Whoever came up with the idea to pack so many airports so close together here in the northeast corridor really was smoking some dog crap.<br /><br />Not to mention that among the busy airports up in NJ/NY, you have Philly int'l, Northeast philly (w00t!), the Grove, McG, south jersey regional and lehigh int'l down here!!! They're also all relatively busy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rocketwatcher2001]

<font color="yellow">That of course is not an option when it comes to airports in tighter spaces, such as EWR and LGA. There is no expansion room available. </font><br /><br />The Japanese can build airports on man-made islands, why can't we? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kerberus]

Remember, most of those airports in the Northeast corridor were built back in the days of a few DC-3s flying at 150K. They were never intended for hundreds of fastmovers all crammed into such a small space. As a result, you get accidents waiting to happen in the form of airports like Washington-National. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Good idea, but even Stewart, at 2200 acres is less than a tenth the size of Denver's new airport. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br />Denvers airport is 54 sq miles; i.e a square 7.3 miles a side.<br /><br />You just ain't gonna squeeze that ito the NY metro area. <br />Heck, that's almost as big as Hudson County (62 sq mi) where 610,000 people live <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[spacefire]

I think Stewart is going to be revamped to become a major NY metro area airport. I think Westchester county can accommodate a lot of regional jets, and it's a short drive from the city on the Hutchinson pkway. They could route all the commuters to Westchester instead of LGA.<br /><br />Teterboro is already at max capacity,with business jets. in fact airports like Essex co are trying to attract some of this traffic, and Essex co is way out west compared to TEB.<br /><br />Another idea is to build ab island airport out of Long Island, like the one in Japan, although that one seems to have some problems. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Not exactly short.<br />It is 55 miles out from the city IIRC. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[spacefire]

really? seemed like a short drive to me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>