Beyond the Falcon 9

[dwightlooi]

Perhaps SpaceX can fill in for NASA's bungling super heavy lift efforts. Perhaps what we need is not the ARES V, or even DIRECT or JUPITER. Perhaps what we need is a 2-stage, all hydrocarbon launch vehicle designed for economy, reliability, ruggedness and simplicity rather than performance. Perhaps SpaceX's heavy lift road map can look like this...

Full Res rendition here --> http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/4492/falconeagle5.gif

 

[docm]

Already discussed in this thread;

Link....

 

[dwightlooi]

Yes, yes, something similar was previously discussed about 1/2 year ago. There are some differences in the concept though. Instead of clustering boosters to create a super heavy lift, this rendition uses a unified booster with seven engines.

The core concept though is similar. Instead of a solid and hydrogen rocket with 3 stages; with large solids introducing vibration issues, hydrogen stages being finicky, side-by-side arrangements adding to catastrophic failure risks and additional staging adding even more failure modes. Let's give up payload to make the launch vehicle simple. 2-stages, 1 staging event, easy to handle RP-1/LOX fuel for all stages and an 80-ton payload to LEO isn't bad. If you need to throw a big mass beyond earth orbit, you break it down to several launches. Say one launch for the utility module, one for the habitation module, one for the earth departure propulsion.

 

[docm]

Does have a bit of Saturn V in it, doesn't it?

It would also meet Elon's stated goal of a "BFR", using the original meaning

 

[dwightlooi]

Not really. More like the Saturn INT-21 which put the Skylab into orbit, except it's an even simpler design than that.

The Saturn has a Kerosene 1st stage with five F1 engines and a LH2/LOX upper stage with five J2 engines. The Eagle 7 is an all Kerosene vehicle very much like the Falcon 1 and 9s are. While using a hydrogen upper stage may lift more payload so will building a bigger rocket. In the case of the Eagle 7, the vehicle has about 12% more thrust and can hence be heavier at liftoff compared to the Saturn V, but has "only" 67% of the LEO capacity. The advantage is that there is no need to have two fuel handling systems or insulation on the vehicle for the highly cryogenic Hydrogen fuel. Also, there is only one engine type -- seven Griffons on the first stage, one on the upper stage. The engine is the simplest design possible -- a gas generator cycle, pintle injection, unit which again gives up performance compared to Russian staged combustion designs for low parts count, ease of manufacture and the inherent reliability of a simpler design. The rocket is sized at a 8.4m diameter without any steps to match the diameter of the Shuttle External Tank and hence the ARES V payload fairing.

 

[matthewota]

That is what has been called a Big Dumb Booster. The idea has been knocked around for years.

Seems to me the Falcon 9 is big enough. It's payload to LEO is larger than the Titan IV was.

 

[SpaceXFanMobius57]

I think Space X will be so succesfull they will develop their own space *pales*{Editlanes Lol} around the 2020s.

Private Space Corps and businesses are the future. :mrgreen: