Black holes: agreed terms help sensible discussion.

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
Oxford Dictionary of Astronomy Ian Ridpath OUP 2011
"Black hole. An object with such a strong gravitational field that its escape velocity exceeds the velocity of light. One way in which black holes are believed to form is when massive stars collapse at the end of their lives. A collapsing object becomes a black hole when its radius has shrunk to a critical size, known as the Schwarzschild radius, and light can no longer escape from it. The surface having this critical radius is referred to as the 'event horizon', and marks the boundary inside which all information is trapped. Hence events within the black hole cannot be observed from outside. Theory indicates that both space and time become distorted inside the event horizon and that an object collapses to a single point, a 'singularity' at the centre of a black hole. Black holes may have any mass. Supermassive black holes (10^5 solar masses) may exist at the centres of active galaxies. At the other extreme mini black holes of radii 10^-10 metres and masses similar to that of an asteroid may have been formed in the extreme conditions following the Big Bang. . . . . . . . . . Black holes are not entirely black; theory suggests that they can emit energy in the form of 'Hawking Radiation'."


To the ends of the Universe by Heather Couper and Nigel Henbest DK 1998
"Within a month of Einstein publishing his theory of general relativity, German physicist Karl Schwarzschild discovered that the equations led to an amazing prediction. A region of space could become so distorted that it was cut off from the outside Universe. Objects could fall in, but never get out again. Today we call such a region a black hole. Einstein himself refused to believe in black holes, but for once he was wrong. At first sight, Schwarzschild's black hole looks like the one predicted by Newton's theory. But only Einstein's theory can explain correctly how space, light, and matter behave near a black hole. Mathematicians have even used general relativity to calculate what happens inside a black hole."


Cosmology - A Very Short Introduction by Peter Coles Oxford University Press 2001
"One example where Newton's gravity breaks down is when a very large amount of matter is concentrated in a very small region of space. When this happens the action of gravity is so strong, and space so warped, that light is not merely bent but is trapped. Such an object is a black hole. . . . . . . . . . One of the first mathematical solutions of Einstein's equations obtained, describes such an object. The famous 'Schwarzschild' solution was obtained only a year after the publication of Einstein's theory in 1916. The solution corresponds to a spherically symmetrical distribution of matter, and it was originally intended that this could form the basis of a mathematical model for a star. It was soon realised, however, that for an object of any mass the Schwarzschild solution implied the existence of a critical radius (now called the Schwarzschild radius). If a massive object lies entirely within its Schwarzschild radius then no light can escape from the surface of the object. For the mass of the Earth the critical radius is only 1 cm, whereas for the Sun it is about 3 km. Making black holes involves compressing material to a phenomenal density."


Universe - the Definitive Visual Guide Ed Martin Rees DK 2012
"A black hole is a region 0f space containing, at its centre, some matter squeezed into a point of infinite density, called a singularity. Within a spherical region around the singularity, the gravitational pull is so great that nothing, not even light, can escape. Black holes can therefore be detected only from the behaviour of material around them; those discovered so far typically have a disk of gas and dust spinning around the hole, throwing off hot, high speed jets of material or emitting radiation (such as X-rays) as matter falls into the hole.
There are two main types of black hole - supermassive and stellar. Supermassive black holes, which can have a mass equivalent to billions of suns, exist in the centres of most galaxies, including our own. Their exact origin is not yet understood, but they may be a by-product of the process of galaxy formation. Stellar black holes form from the collapsed remains of exploded supergiant stars, and may be very common in all galaxies."

Complete History of the Universe All About Space Imagine Publishing 2016
Supermassive black holes
The ultimate consequence of gravity is a black hole. Imagine a region of space where gravity has caused a star to collapse, at the end of its life, to a point so small and dense that its gravity is practically infinite and completely overwhelms everything else. It's so strong that not even light can escape its grasp - the point of no return is known as the event horizon - explaining where the name black hole came from. And black holes don't come any more massive than a hefty supermassive black hole. With a mass ranging anywhere from hundreds of thousands to billions of times the mass of the Sun, these exotic high gravity objects are more often than not the centrepiece of the many galaxies that litter our Universe. Our own Milky Way even has one, called Sagittarius A*, which is a monster of around 4.3 million times the mass of our Sun, located deep in the middle of our galaxy amid myriad stars and vast clouds of gas and dust. So powerful are these galaxies that they have the power to switch star formation in a galaxy on and off at will." [At will???]
"Think back to quasars - these are the most extreme form of active supermassive black holes. But less energetic black holes can still produce lower power jets, yet even though they're lower power, they still dominate the galaxy that they are in. Stars need gas to form, and the gas in galaxies often falls on to them from wandering clouds of intergalactic gas. Yet as clouds fall on to galaxies and as the galaxies merge with other galaxies, gas gets funnelled towards the black hole, ending up in a disk surrounding it, some of which is then beamed back out into the galaxy by jets or 'winds' of stellar radiation."
"These jets and radiation heat the gas that is creating stars, causing it to become too hot for star formation and sometimes even blowing right out of the galaxy itself. This is called feedback, and when it happens it brings star formation in a galaxy to a stuttering halt."

Astronomy First midsized black hole detected by Alison Klegman and Jake Parks February 2021
"Black holes come in a variety of sizes, ranging from a few to billions of times the mass of the Sun. . . . . . . . . . scientists at the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO) and the partnering Virgo site received the first convincing sign: gravitational waves that point to the violent birth of an intermediate mass black hole (IMBH)."



Black Hole
WORK IN PROGRESS Much further information to be added. 26 May 2021.
 
Last edited:
Jul 23, 2021
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Oxford Dictionary of Astronomy Ian Ridpath OUP 2011
"Black hole. An object with such a strong gravitational field that its escape velocity exceeds the velocity of light. One way in which black holes are believed to form is when massive stars collapse at the end of their lives. A collapsing object becomes a black hole when its radius has shrunk to a critical size, known as the Schwarzschild radius, and light can no longer escape from it. The surface having this critical radius is referred to as the 'event horizon', and marks the boundary inside which all information is trapped. Hence events within the black hole cannot be observed from outside. Theory indicates that both space and time become distorted inside the event horizon and that an object collapses to a single point, a 'singularity' at the centre of a black hole. Black holes may have any mass. Supermassive black holes (10^5 solar masses) may exist at the centres of active galaxies. At the other extreme mini black holes of radii 10^-10 metres and masses similar to that of an asteroid may have been formed in the extreme conditions following the Big Bang. . . . . . . . . . Black holes are not entirely black; theory suggests that they can emit energy in the form of 'Hawking Radiation'."


To the ends of the Universe by Heather Couper and Nigel Henbest DK 1998
"Within a month of Einstein publishing his theory of general relativity, German physicist Karl Schwarzschild discovered that the equations led to an amazing prediction. A region of space could become so distorted that it was cut off from the outside Universe. Objects could fall in, but never get out again. Today we call such a region a black hole. Einstein himself refused to believe in black holes, but for once he was wrong. At first sight, Schwarzschild's black hole looks like the one predicted by Newton's theory. But only Einstein's theory can explain correctly how space, light, and matter behave near a black hole. Mathematicians have even used general relativity to calculate what happens inside a black hole."


Cosmology - A Very Short Introduction by Peter Coles Oxford University Press 2001
"One example where Newton's gravity breaks down is when a very large amount of matter is concentrated in a very small region of space. When this happens the action of gravity is so strong, and space so warped, that light is not merely bent but is trapped. Such an object is a black hole. . . . . . . . . . One of the first mathematical solutions of Einstein's equations obtained, describes such an object. The famous 'Schwarzschild' solution was obtained only a year after the publication of Einstein's theory in 1916. The solution corresponds to a spherically symmetrical distribution of matter, and it was originally intended that this could form the basis of a mathematical model for a star. It was soon realised, however, that for an object of any mass the Schwarzschild solution implied the existence of a critical radius (now called the Schwarzschild radius). If a massive object lies entirely within its Schwarzschild radius then no light can escape from the surface of the object. For the mass of the Earth the critical radius is only 1 cm, whereas for the Sun it is about 3 km. Making black holes involves compressing material to a phenomenal density."


Universe - the Definitive Visual Guide Ed Martin Rees DK 2012
"A black hole is a region 0f space containing, at its centre, some matter squeezed into a point of infinite density, called a singularity. Within a spherical region around the singularity, the gravitational pull is so great that nothing, not even light, can escape. Black holes can therefore be detected only from the behaviour of material around them; those discovered so far typically have a disk of gas and dust spinning around the hole, throwing off hot, high speed jets of material or emitting radiation (such as X-rays) as matter falls into the hole.
There are two main types of black hole - supermassive and stellar. Supermassive black holes, which can have a mass equivalent to billions of suns, exist in the centres of most galaxies, including our own. Their exact origin is not yet understood, but they may be a by-product of the process of galaxy formation. Stellar black holes form from the collapsed remains of exploded supergiant stars, and may be very common in all galaxies."

Complete History of the Universe All About Space Imagine Publishing 2016
Supermassive black holes
The ultimate consequence of gravity is a black hole. Imagine a region of space where gravity has caused a star to collapse, at the end of its life, to a point so small and dense that its gravity is practically infinite and completely overwhelms everything else. It's so strong that not even light can escape its grasp - the point of no return is known as the event horizon - explaining where the name black hole came from. And black holes don't come any more massive than a hefty supermassive black hole. With a mass ranging anywhere from hundreds of thousands to billions of times the mass of the Sun, these exotic high gravity objects are more often than not the centrepiece of the many galaxies that litter our Universe. Our own Milky Way even has one, called Sagittarius A*, which is a monster of around 4.3 million times the mass of our Sun, located deep in the middle of our galaxy amid myriad stars and vast clouds of gas and dust. So powerful are these galaxies that they have the power to switch star formation in a galaxy on and off at will." [At will???]
"Think back to quasars - these are the most extreme form of active supermassive black holes. But less energetic black holes can still produce lower power jets, yet even though they're lower power, they still dominate the galaxy that they are in. Stars need gas to form, and the gas in galaxies often falls on to them from wandering clouds of intergalactic gas. Yet as clouds fall on to galaxies and as the galaxies merge with other galaxies, gas gets funnelled towards the black hole, ending up in a disk surrounding it, some of which is then beamed back out into the galaxy by jets or 'winds' of stellar radiation."
"These jets and radiation heat the gas that is creating stars, causing it to become too hot for star formation and sometimes even blowing right out of the galaxy itself. This is called feedback, and when it happens it brings star formation in a galaxy to a stuttering halt."

Astronomy First midsized black hole detected by Alison Klegman and Jake Parks February 2021
"Black holes come in a variety of sizes, ranging from a few to billions of times the mass of the Sun. . . . . . . . . . scientists at the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory (LIGO) and the partnering Virgo site received the first convincing sign: gravitational waves that point to the violent birth of an intermediate mass black hole (IMBH)."



Black Hole
WORK IN PROGRESS Much further information to be added. 26 May 2021.
If your theory is correct, could you tell me why there is a black hole in every galaxy which we have the power to observe? Every galaxy has a black hole, to eat what is not necessary. it forms a massive ball of molten heated rock. We can't prove this theory, however, each time a black hole erupts the mass is ejected beyond the galaxy in which it is from. Which is the beginning of a new galaxy

Mod Edit - The religion forum is down the hall, second door on the right
 
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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
Formation of supermassive black holes by direct collapse in ...
https://academic.oup.com › mnras › article


by MC Begelman · 2006 · Cited by 758 — Continued compression by infalling matter prevents the core from losing energy radiatively and collapsing or becoming degenerate. At sufficiently high ...
INTRODUCTION · ‎CORE COLLAPSE AND INITIAL GROWTH OF BLACK HOLE


Supermassive Black Hole | COSMOS
https://astronomy.swin.edu.au › cosmos › supermassive...

Astronomers are still not sure how these supermassive black holes form. Stellar black holes result from the collapse of massive stars, and some have suggested ...

Formation of Supermassive Black Holes
https://arxiv.org › astro-ph

by M Volonteri · 2010 · Cited by 686 — I will discuss black hole formation processes for `seed' black holes that are likely to place at early cosmic epochs, and possible ...

Zeroing In on How Supermassive Black Holes Formed ...
https://www.scientificamerican.com › article › zeroing-i...

29 Sept 2017 — Recent observations have revealed the existence of black holes billions of times more massive than the sun just 800 million years after the big ...

New Origin of Supermassive Black Holes Revealed by ...
https://scitechdaily.com › new-origin-of-supermassive-bla...


However, their origin is still one of the great mysteries of astronomy. A popular theory is the direct collapse model where primordial clouds of ...
19 Jun 2020 · Uploaded by SciTech Daily

How do supermassive black holes grow so large? | Astronomy ...
https://astronomy.com › how-to-grow-a-giant-black-hole

22 Mar 2021 — First, massive stars live out their life cycles, creating many smaller black holes. As these black holes plow through the dense gas within their ...

How did supermassive black holes get so big and chonky ...
https://www.space.com › how-supermassive-black-holes-g...


Computer simulations of the behavior of stars, black holes, galaxies and gas in the early universe suggest that these black holes grew quickly, ...
9 Apr 2020

Where Do Supermassive Black Holes Come From? | WIRED
https://www.wired.com › Science › black holes

18 Jul 2019 — Astronomers have a pretty good idea of how most black holes form: A massive star dies, and after it goes supernova, the remaining mass (if ...

All About Space Issue 119 August 2021
Do all galaxies have a black hole at the centre? Answer by Jillian M Scudder.

It sure seems that way! The centre of every galaxy we've been able to examine in detail has proved to be the host of a supermassive black hole. The most famous recent addition to our understanding is the directly imaged shadow of the supermassive black hole in the centre of Messier 87. At 6 billion times the mass of our Sun, M87's black hole is a tremendously large object. But what of other more distant galaxies where we can't go look directly?
M87 gives us a clue. In addition to being able to see the shadow of the black hole directly, its supermassive black hole also drives a thin jet of gas, larger than the entire galaxy, out from its centre. The energy required to launch material like this is best explained by a black hole, and in M87 we see them together. In more distant galaxies, we can use the presence of energetic jets, or other similar phenomena, to infer the frequent presence of a supermassive black hole - and they are indeed so frequent that we conclude that all massive galaxies should have one."
Dr Jillian M Scudder, assistant professor at Oberlin College and Conservatory, Ohio.

All About Space Complete History of the Universe 2016

View: https://imgur.com/a/Y9VBTTG


"In 2014, Stephen Hawking put forward a controversial theory about black holes; that they do not exist at all, at least not in the way we imagine them. The science of black holes is based on Einstein's theory of General Relativity, but there are grey areas that don't quite make sense. One of the major problems is the event horizon.
According to Einstein, the point at which matter crosses over into a black hole and gets destroyed as it gets spaghettified and pulled towards the singularity. However, according to quantum theory, the event horizon would actually be a 'firewall' of high energy particles. The physics behind Einstein's theory contradicts that of quantum theory, but Hawking proposes a new answer; that the event horizon does not actually exist at all. He suggests that black holes are not bottomless pits from which nothing can return, and that instead, they just temporarily hold and scramble matter, before releasing it back into the Universe as radiation."







WORK IN PROGRESS Much further information to be added. 3 August 2021 00.50 BST.
 
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Hey Cat interesting topic.
We sure have a long way to go to get a grip on what a black hole is and isn't.
IMO it's just a time well with no true singularity, but that is just my opinion :)

Physics and black holes have a serious parting of the ways with infinite mass/gravity as natural outcome of black holes when nuclear force is defeated in them.

We are missing something for sure in the reality of them since infinite mass/gravity never happens.
 
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If we are not very happy about a singularity (division by zero in the real world) in the Big Bang, what do we think about singularities in Black Holes?

Cat :)
You get better results of black hole physics with just inactivity.
Top layer of a black hole maybe an electron vibrates every 100 years, just below that layer every 1000 years etc.
Then we never reach infinite mass or energy and black hole physics just become lack of activity in an onion skin of layers of compressed energy. JMO
 
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Would you describe that as an infinite regression?

Cat :)
Yes could be the reason black holes never get to infinite mass.
Each layer takes longer and longer for any activity so it takes forever to get to infinite mass.
Not enough time for it ever to happen.
Infinite lack or time/activity.
For sure we have to get creative beyond the nuclear force so lack of activity is as good a reason as any :)
 
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