# QuestionCalculating the Universe and is it possible the universe expanded first from information?

#### Stellarwest

I believe we can break down the universe into 3 separate blocks energy, mass and information. The void was spurred on to retain our universe when suddenly the 3 blocks appeared within it and expanded with immense heat. What number was baked into the universe is a deep question and could signal the final end to the universe whether a big crunch or the big freeze or rip. In the calculation I provided it shows just at 165.4 the precise age of our universe. With some tweaking with entropy one could possibly find the number to this code that would show the number that would be the tipping point when the universe goes into decline.

When one inputs a number into this python code the output will show the size of a universe. It will show the event horizon of light and bit information. The code does not need very large numbers to obtain the 13.8 billion year old age of the universe, in fact the number is just 165.4. Here is the read out for this number below. If you use the python code just input a number and wait for the last calculation and that is your output for the number inputted.

The void of the universe needed something to be injected into it for the universe to expand so if you enter zero you will get all zero's back. The big question is what was the first thing to enter the universe? Was it information, energy or mass? Can you answer the latter question? Remember that the trigger to the universe could have been a tiny bit of information and it expanded rapidly with light and energy that is quite possible. So pardon me for the small numbers as I assume it only happened once at the input level and it is for you pure enjoyment that you get a second try with numbers to inflate the universe with other numbers.

Would it be possible that the universe started off from just information and mass and energy followed or was all together.

If you enter 5 you will see the number for recombination and it will show what the distance was for beyond the observable at that time too.

Enter: 165.4

330.8 The Universe in a flat 2d plane at 2 bits multiplied by inputted number equals the amount of information
1488.6000000000001 Output of calculation of light years from bit information in 2d
1.6743926269854437e+19 The max amount of bit information with energy and mass for this calculated Universe as in a Volume of a Sphere
13,810,278,243.669123 This is the calculated Universe in light years as in a Volume of a Sphere
93,219,378,144.76657 Beyond Observable Entire Universe related to bit carrying total as in a Volume of a Sphere
00:00:00

Python:
``````print('''Infomation is equivalent to energy and without its constant injection into the system
the universe will collapse. The universe cannot continue to expand without an informational
presense.

Enter the numbers in parenthesis (.15) for Neutrino decoupling and (.462) for Big Bang nucleosynthesis
and (5) for Recombination and see how that relates to the beginning of the
universe on wikipedia.
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe">Big Bang</a>

8 bits is the multplier to know a Universes carrying capacity, because 1 atoms capacity is 8 bits.

The Universe is 14 billion years old and has expanded to 93 billion light years, and continues to expand due to inflation of the Universe.
<a href="https://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2010/10/27/how-big-is-the-unobservable-un">Universe Actual Size</a>
__________________''')

import time
while True:
n = (float(input('Input a bit number into the void to kick off the big bang or construct a Universe: ')))
void = 1
increment = 1
numbers_range = 10
start_time = time.time()
while void < numbers_range:

print(((2*n)),'The Universe in a flat 2d plane at 2 bits multiplied by inputed number equals the amount of information')

u = (2*n)
info = ((4/3)*3.14)*u**3
print (void*n,'Output of calculation of light years from bit information in 2d')
l = (void*n)

light = ((4/3)*3.14)*l**3
infomax = (light*info*8)
info_out = (light)*(6.75)
print (("{:,}".format(infomax)),'The max amount of bit information with energy and mass for this calculated Universe as in a Volume of a Sphere')
print (("{:,}".format(light)),'This is the calculated Universe in light years as in a Volume of a Sphere')
print(("{:,}".format(info_out)),'Beyond Observable','Entire Universe related to bit carrying total as in a Volume of a Sphere')

increment = 1 ** (len(str(void))-1)
void += increment
e = int(time.time() - start_time)
print('{:02d}:{:02d}:{:02d}'.format(e // 3600, (e % 3600 // 60), e % 60))

print('______________________')``````

#### Unclear Engineer

Not following the logic for this code.
What is "information" about if there is no mass or energy in the universe?

Catastrophe

#### Stellarwest

Not following the logic for this code.
What is "information" about if there is no mass or energy in the universe?
The information is what seeded the mass and energy which would have came a femtosecond after the calculation which set off the big bang which I refer to as information. Its the bits of the calculation. Contained within the information is the size and longevity of the particular universe. I do see a green wire which is a control mechanism for the universe which would be more then just a ground black and red hot wire.

The logic of the code shows that a universe cannot arise from nothing or zero input. My meaning is a void will stay that way until something acts upon it. So the green wire would be some sort of bits that triggered the energy and mass to give rise to the big bang and is that possible?

#### Unclear Engineer

I do not think of "information" as a stand-alone "thing". As a matter of opinion, I do not even agree that it is reasonable to claim that "information" can never be lost, destroyed or "hidden".

As logical negative statements, those claims are logically unproveable. And, claiming that things like black holes cannot exist because they would "hide" information from those of us on the outside seems to me like an extrapolation of a shaky idea to an overly important decision criterion.

So, I am not the one to discuss your program with you. Maybe somebody else?

Helio

#### Catastrophe

##### "There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Calculating the Universe and is it possible the universe expanded first from information?

Mass and energy are the same - just different manifestations. E = mc^2

Everything is made of, or energised by mass or energy.

Information is a downstream by product arising in species with some degree intelligence. Less intelligence - less reliable information.

No. It is not possible that the Universe expanded first from information.

Last edited:

#### Stellarwest

Calculating the Universe and is it possible the universe expanded first from information?

Mass and energy are the same - just different manifestations. E = mc^2

Everything is made of, or energised by mass or energy.

Information is a downstream by product arising in species with some degree intelligence. Less intelligence - less reliable information.

No. It is not possible that the Universe expanded first from information.

Cat
I would not go as far as say its not possible while research is on about whether information carries mass. So just maybe my question holds and I do believe it took some intelligence to design the universe.

There is no dark matter. Instead, information has mass, physicist says

THE FIFTH STATE OF MATTER
To measure the mass of digital information, you start with an empty data storage device. Next, you measure its total mass with a highly sensitive measuring apparatus. Then, you fill it and determine its mass. Next, you erase one file and evaluate it again. The trouble is, the “ultra-accurate mass measurement” device the paper describes doesn’t exist yet. This would be an interferometer, something similar to LIGO. Or perhaps an ultrasensitive weighing machine akin to a Kibble balance.

“Currently, I am in the process of applying for a small grant, with the main objective of designing such an experiment, followed by calculations to check if detection of these small mass changes is even possible,” Vopson says. “Assuming the grant is successful and the estimates are positive, then a larger international consortium could be formed to undertake the construction of the instrument.” He added, “This is not a workbench laboratory experiment, and it would most likely be a large and costly facility.” If eventually proved correct, Vopson will have discovered the fifth form of matter.

So, what’s the connection to dark matter? Vopson says, “M.P. Gough published an article in 2008 in which he worked out … the number of bits of information that the visible universe would contain to make up all the missing dark matter. It appears that my estimates of information bit content of the universe are very close to his estimates.”

#### Catastrophe

##### "There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
E = mc^2 is information. It is information about mass and energy, linked by the speed of light (squared). How much does that weigh in kg?

#### Unclear Engineer

Strange thinking

Regarding the "experiment" about weighing a computer chip with different amounts of data on it:

The "information" on the chip is always binary ones and zeros. The "pattern" of that information is what we "interpret" as "information".

So, unless the "ones" have a different weight than "zeros", the chip is not going to change mass when the pattern changes.

What you would need to do is weigh the brain of the person who learned something. And it would be impossible to isolate that from every other learning (and forgetting) experience going on simultaneously for actual humans, anyway.

My take on this is that it is an extreme case of "modeler's myopia", where somebody who has deep expertise in a very narrow technical field tries to understand the whole world on the basis of the very limited perspective of the field where they have knowledge above the population average. That seems to be a more common problem in cosmology than in other scientific areas that are more capable of being "ground-truthed" by observations.

#### Stellarwest

I'm not the only who thinks its possible that that the universe was formed with information. As a matter of fact there is a good article here on this website about it.

Forget Space-Time: Information May Create the Cosmos

#### COLGeek

Moderator
I'm not the only who thinks its possible that that the universe was formed with information. As a matter of fact there is a good article here on this website about it.
Yes, that article coincides with your thoughts. However, there is no basis to assume it is correct, as in based in reality.

The notion of a simulation is just that. A notion.

Unclear Engineer

#### Unclear Engineer

I would not go as far as say its not possible while research is on about whether information carries mass. So just maybe my question holds and I do believe it took some intelligence to design the universe.

[from link titled "There is no dark matter. Instead, information has mass, physicist says"]
“Currently, I am in the process of applying for a small grant, with the main objective of designing such an experiment, followed by calculations to check if detection of these small mass changes is even possible,” Vopson says. “Assuming the grant is successful and the estimates are positive, then a larger international consortium could be formed to undertake the construction of the instrument.” He added, “This is not a workbench laboratory experiment, and it would most likely be a large and costly facility.”
I am not surprised that some of the people who spend their lives thinking about "information technology" start to think of "information" as some tangible thing with mass.

But, I don't see any reason to believe them.

It is on them to produce some sort of evidence before they can expect any serious people to provide money to them to search for proof of their concept.

So, Vopson needs to find enough "believers" who will give him money to support his desire to experiment with his idea. That seems plausible, because there are all sorts of religious organizations that are supported by donations of faithful believers, even though those organizations have different, sometimes conflicting beliefs. So, enough "information technologists" who believe him might pony-up enough funding out of their own personal resources to get him going. Maybe Vopson should ask for money from the people who were quoted in the OP's other link titled "Forget Space-Time: Information May Create the Cosmos".

But I don't think the OP is finding believers here for this idea.

And please don't invest my tax dollars on this!