Can we save Mars robots from death by dust?

[Admin]

NASA's Mars Insight lander died a slow death by dust. Could anything have been done to save it?

Can we save Mars robots from death by dust? : Read more

 

[Roger Sprouse]

To bad Ingenuity not close by a little prop wash might just fix her right up.

 

[Mr Anderson 42]

It should be possible to devise a simple and lightweight system to pull a brush across the solar panels and sweep them clean. On Insight the round panels might have made it a bit complicated but even in that case it should have been do-able.

 

[COLGeek]

To bad Ingenuity not close by a little prop wash might just fix her right up.

A bit out of range...

Mars Dust Storm in Relation to InSight, Curiosity and Perseverance

The beige clouds seen in this global map of Mars are a continent-size dust storm captured on Sept. 29, 2022, by the Mars Color Imager camera aboard NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter.

www.jpl.nasa.gov

 

[Ken Fabian]

InSight exceeded it's expected working life. It's capabilities would have had to be reduced to accommodate any cleaning system and failing to include it was never a design flaw. It was always likely that if it didn't break down in other ways that dust would get it in the end.

 

[Bill-NM]

Sorry, but some things (like cleaning panels to keep a mission alive) should be done just because they, well, SHOULD be done. (I'm not an engineer, and I'm sure that will come across clearly).

Yes yes, dust removal systems add complexity, etc, and yes yes, the mission was only designed to be X months long, etc.

But there's still the basic principle of throwing something perfectly good/expensive "in the trash".

I just don't think that trashing something should be an option. It's just not "right" to trash things, esp things that cost a lot in money and man-hours.

Yeah, I'm speaking from non-engineer/accountant perspective.

 

[beezer73]

Seems like a couple 12gram co2 cartridges would do the trick. I have a .50 cal pepper ball gun that uses one 12 gram cartridge and I've shot it 12x, not sure how many it will go but at 12 it was just as powerful as the first. VERY loud. Seems a burst or two like this would do the trick and wouldn't add much weight or cost.

 

[Steve Byers]

To bad Ingenuity not close by a little prop wash might just fix her right up.

I thought the same thing awhile back and actually "emailed" NASA. Didn't realize how far away Ingenuity was. Seems like it might have worked.

 

[hsugeorge]

No. Not without billion's of $ for the current one.
For the future, it's should'nt be that complicated to add a vibrator motor to shake off all the dust by folding the solar panel in a verticle position.

 

[donone101]

Sorry, but some things (like cleaning panels to keep a mission alive) should be done just because they, well, SHOULD be done. (I'm not an engineer, and I'm sure that will come across clearly).

Yes yes, dust removal systems add complexity, etc, and yes yes, the mission was only designed to be X months long, etc.

But there's still the basic principle of throwing something perfectly good/expensive "in the trash".

I just don't think that trashing something should be an option. It's just not "right" to trash things, esp things that cost a lot in money and man-hours.

Yeah, I'm speaking from non-engineer/accountant perspective.

It seems that NASA has issues similar with Detroit's auto industry then and now, and its lack of thinking from the vantage point of the average person. Virtually everything NASA sends out in space is built to last a very long time. Not thinking through the possible dust issue and coming up with a simple fix just wasn't 'engineered', and should have been. It would be great to see these folks show the world what they're developing and ask for thoughts and ideas. Works for most of the world.

 

[CK JAG]

Of course if you make the product resiliant, you don't need more products, or more launches.

 

[bolide]

Ingenuity has proved so useful that hopefully future landers will carry their own helicopters or drones. And as others have mentioned they could hover above their lander to give it a little prop wash.

 

[Quazgaa]

Here's an idea. The solar panels of Insight are made to open up sort of like one of those Chinese folding fans, once the lander has landed...
Hmm, I just looked at video of how it unfolds and it wasn't what I thought. So I will have to modify this to say IF they were designed to 'expand'-into-fully-exposed-position the solar cells in such a way as they initially had the 10 sections right on top of each other, and to open them up the top one would rotate 36° and slide over the 2nd one, and then the top and 2nd one would slide 36° over the 3rd one, etc., etc. (they would each pivot from a central axle at the end of the arm that goes out initially from the lander), and so it would expand into a full circle this way, well if they did it THAT way, then they could have a very fine brush material on the trailing edge of the bottom of each section so that when it opened, that brush would brush against the section below. If they had done it that way, then a way to clear the dust off that wouldn't require any other mechanism to be added, would be to just close the 10 sections up into a stack like they would presumably have been stored for the landing sequence. Then it would be opened again and voila, it would have cleaned itself by the action of opening up the 10 sections as it had done initially. But I now realize that isn't how the solar cells are rotated into position on the Insight, so this idea would not work for it. Not sure why they decided to design it the way they did but perhaps there was a good reason.

 

[billslugg]

I'm with you on this. I don't see any reason a suitable method could be devised to clean the dust off those panels. For gosh sake, the thing has its own helicopter! Don't fall for a "complexity" excuse. I think they just didn't anticipate any of these landers staying around long enough for dust to be a problem. It's just good old fashioned short sightedness. They'll fix it.

 

[bolide]

Here's an idea. The solar panels of Insight are made to open up sort of like one of those Chinese folding fans, once the lander has landed...
Hmm, I just looked at video of how it unfolds and it wasn't what I thought. So I will have to modify this to say IF they were designed to 'expand'-into-fully-exposed-position the solar cells in such a way as they initially had the 10 sections right on top of each other, and to open them up the top one would rotate 36° and slide over the 2nd one, and then the top and 2nd one would slide 36° over the 3rd one, etc., etc. (they would each pivot from a central axle at the end of the arm that goes out initially from the lander), and so it would expand into a full circle this way, well if they did it THAT way, then they could have a very fine brush material on the trailing edge of the bottom of each section so that when it opened, that brush would brush against the section below. If they had done it that way, then a way to clear the dust off that wouldn't require any other mechanism to be added, would be to just close the 10 sections up into a stack like they would presumably have been stored for the landing sequence. Then it would be opened again and voila, it would have cleaned itself by the action of opening up the 10 sections as it had done initially. But I now realize that isn't how the solar cells are rotated into position on the Insight, so this idea would not work for it. Not sure why they decided to design it the way they did but perhaps there was a good reason.

I'd worry about abrasion of the panels from folding them up with dust on them. Also getting dust into that complicated mechanism.

 

[the1pope]

NASA's Mars Insight lander died a slow death by dust. Could anything have been done to save it?

Can we save Mars robots from death by dust? : Read more

Ya know, for your landers, you don't have to add any new equipment to shake off the dust. Every once in a while, find a tall rock to climb onto or a steep incline, go forward or back fast (as it can) and hit the brakes. Anything to give it a jolt or jerk while sideways or leaning back or forward. Run into something on an incline. The momentum should shake something off. How hard would that be?

 

[skynr13]

What about a small aquarium pump and hollow solar panel struts with tiny holes in them? Those pumps weigh less that 2 pounds and could pump available Martian CO2 across the panels through their hollow support struts. Give me a job, NASA!