Can we use the asteroid apophis as an outpost

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8603103a

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Can we use the asteroid apophis as an outpost rather than deflecting it?
 
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a_lost_packet_

Guest
Why? It's going to fly on by us anyway. Putting an outpost on it would simply be waving goodbye to a few lives and a lot of effort.

There's no intention to deflect Apophis. Despite what rumors you may here, it's not going to threaten us.
 
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SteveCNC

Guest
It might be a good one to drop a probe on to though since it will be nearby .
 
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8603103a

Guest
how about move the asteroid to a lagrange point and we will acheive lagrange colonization,this is our oppurnityto acheive space colonization.
 
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adrenalynn

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We are a long way from that...

The more realistic direction is to drop a beacon or two on it, point at it as it goes past, and say "ooooh!" and "aahhhhh!".
 
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MeteorWayne

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8603103a":11ufh95b said:
how about move the asteroid to a lagrange point and we will acheive lagrange colonization,this is our oppurnityto acheive space colonization.
It's moving far too fast and is far too massive to "move" anywhere. If it was a threat to earth we might be able to shove it a tiny bit so that it and earth aren't at the same spot at the same time... that's about all we could hope to do.
 
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csmyth3025

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SteveCNC":2co053q5 said:
It might be a good one to drop a probe on to though since it will be nearby .
I'm guessing that even though apophis will be nearby in its close approaches to Earth, the delta-v needed to land a probe on it - or to closely orbit it - would be about the same as that needed to put that same probe in it's own (similar) orbit. I may be worng about this.

It might be useful to put an RTG powered beacon or, at least, a reflector on it to make it easier to track. The cost for such a limited-purpose mission might be prohibitive, though (about $140 million according to Wikipedia). Still, if the thing bangs into a space rock or an iceball big enough to just slightly change its orbit, it would be nice to know about it early on - just in case.

This brings up a question: How much of apophis's orbit are we actually able to track?

Chris
 
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SteveCNC

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csmyth3025":3oc4cy62 said:
SteveCNC":3oc4cy62 said:
It might be a good one to drop a probe on to though since it will be nearby .
I'm guessing that even though apophis will be nearby in its close approaches to Earth, the delta-v needed to land a probe on it - or to closely orbit it - would be about the same as that needed to put that same probe in it's own (similar) orbit. I may be worng about this.

It might be useful to put an RTG powered beacon or, at least, a reflector on it to make it easier to track. The cost for such a limited-purpose mission might be prohibitive, though (about $140 million according to Wikipedia). Still, if the thing bangs into a space rock or an iceball big enough to just slightly change its orbit, it would be nice to know about it early on - just in case.

This brings up a question: How much of apophis's orbit are we actually able to track?

Chris
My thinking is a small probe wouldn't require as much fuel to aquire delta V and would therefore be more doable being it could be remotely guided in for final approach with less lag due to the close proximity . This is the kind of mission the hybrid would be a good choice for the leo to neo run .

In order to plan a mission of any importance when it comes to an asteroid we need to know a few things to pick a good spot for touching down like is it tumbling and if so how . Wouldn't want to fly up to it and get smacked by it coming around or something , also would want access to regular sunlight for the solar panels and line of sight with earth for transmitting information so this would be important . Either that or a satelite has to go with and fly nearby on the same orbit to relay information but I think that raises the cost too much .
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
csmyth3025":1e39cdrt said:
SteveCNC":1e39cdrt said:
It might be a good one to drop a probe on to though since it will be nearby .
I'm guessing that even though apophis will be nearby in its close approaches to Earth, the delta-v needed to land a probe on it - or to closely orbit it - would be about the same as that needed to put that same probe in it's own (similar) orbit. I may be worng about this.
No, you are absolutely correct. It passes earth at relative speed of ~ 6 km/sec.

It might be useful to put an RTG powered beacon or, at least, a reflector on it to make it easier to track. The cost for such a limited-purpose mission might be prohibitive, though (about $140 million according to Wikipedia). Still, if the thing bangs into a space rock or an iceball big enough to just slightly change its orbit, it would be nice to know about it early on - just in case.
The biggest unknowns are actually various effects of solar radiation, the Yarkovsky and YORP effects. Having a radio transponder on the surface would allow considerable refinement of the orbit (though it is very well known) and continuous monitoring of the changes caused by these subtle radiation pressures.

This brings up a question: How much of apophis's orbit are we actually able to track?

Chris
Well, when it's close, and not behind the sun we can track it. The last visual obs were taken Jan 9, 2008, the discovery obs on Mar 15 2004 with a total of 1410 visual observations (and 6 rejected as outliers). In addition to the visual obs, Arecibo made 2 radar range observations, and 5 doppler velocity measurements between January 2005 and May 2006 at it's last close approach. These made the orbit extremely accurate, probably the most accurate for any asteroid.

There will be an opportunity for more such radar obs in 2013, assuming Arecibo hasn't been shut down by then. That will show any changes to the orbit due to the effects I mentioned above.

MW
 
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neilsox

Guest
Putting an outpost on apophis is likely no more difficult than putting an outpost on Mars or a moon of Mars. We could give the humans a 100 year supply of food and supplies. Apophis will do another close fly by of Earth in a few decades, so it is not like forever. Apophis is always closer than about 2 AU, so communications would be possible and practical, except briefly while apophis is behind the Sun. Neil
 
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MeteorWayne

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ROFL...a hundred year supply of food and water? Have you calculated the mass and cost????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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bdewoody

Guest
Again most people, even a lot in here don't understand the limited capability we have when it comes to moving humans around in space. Even just inside the orbit of Jupiter. Either you need a lot of power, which translates to massive amounts of fuel or a lot of time which isn't acceptable when it comes to humans in the equation. For example the mission to Pluto which will take 15 years and that is without a return trip. I'm sorry I'm not volunteering for a one way trip in space no matter what the scientific gains are.
 
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csmyth3025

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MeteorWayne":d4z74awg said:
ROFL...a hundred year supply of food and water? Have you calculated the mass and cost????? :lol: :lol: :lol:
They would probably also want to take 100 years worth of spare parts and a couple of pairs of small children (male and female - not related) so that the children of those children can take care of their parents in their old age.

Chris
 
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8603103a

Guest
ok,we will move this asteroid into a suitable point and shave it small,we will renovate it and it will become our space colony,then ,we will make a giant leap into space.
 
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8603103a

Guest
We will build a telescope,bio center and a small town over there,i prefer the town name is Celestia, which means the space town always face the space.But , we have to acheive some tech to permanently providing oxygen on there.Can someone figure out how to provide the gas permanently to the colony.
 
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adrenalynn

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Oh, is that all?

Well, when you put it that way, it's pretty trivially easy, cheap, and worthwhile. Why don't you just take care of it?
 
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rubicondsrv

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8603103a":2k44m6kz said:
We will build a telescope,bio center and a small town over there,i prefer the town name is Celestia, which means the space town always face the space.But , we have to acheive some tech to permanently providing oxygen on there.Can someone figure out how to provide the gas permanently to the colony.
how old are you???
 
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3488

Guest
Hi rubicondsrv,

Not very old I expect!!!!!!! :?

Andrew Brown.
 
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Yuri_Armstrong

Guest
The concept of setting up a base on an asteroid has been around for a while. But why apophis? I'm sure there are better candidates than that.
 
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raptorborealis

Guest
When I read a thread like this, my first hope is that it is intended to be a joke.

Are people really this ignorant of the level of our space technology?

Hey folks, we still cross our fingers when an astronaut exits the ISS to fasten a bolt.
 
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8603103a

Guest
I am 14 years old teenager but i am sure that the asteroid can be our revolutionary acheivement by colonizating it.Stephen Hawking had said that we have to acheive space colonization or we will extinct because of some earth related reasons.
 
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8603103a

Guest
raptorborealis":59ayv9o8 said:
When I read a thread like this, my first hope is that it is intended to be a joke.

Are people really this ignorant of the level of our space technology?

Hey folks, we still cross our fingers when an astronaut exits the ISS to fasten a bolt.
Yeah,some folks are really ignorant.Maybe China or Russia ( they are rushing up ) will make it first if america still does not develop more advanced tech.
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
Things seem easy when you are 14 and don't have to consider the physics, or the staggering cost of the ideas you throw out there. Later on, you learn to be a little more realistic and pragmatic.

Still, don't stop dreaming, but do take the time to understand the science, and the way the world works when it comes to paying for things.

Wayne
 
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adrenalynn

Guest
Psh. I could buy that asteroid and teach it to play fetch... If I didn't have this house payment. :(
 
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