Can we use the asteroid apophis as an outpost

Page 2 - Seeking answers about space? Join the Space community: the premier source of space exploration, innovation, and astronomy news, chronicling (and celebrating) humanity's ongoing expansion across the final frontier.
Status
Not open for further replies.
8

8603103a

Guest
ok,but i hope that nasa or esa will consider this issue.I can say that this can be our first space colony.Remember that one small leap to space colonization is one giant leap of our human history.
 
R

raptorborealis

Guest
8603103a":1ohqqrcb said:
We will build a telescope,bio center and a small town over there,i prefer the town name is Celestia, which means the space town always face the space.But , we have to acheive some tech to permanently providing oxygen on there.Can someone figure out how to provide the gas permanently to the colony.
John Wayne said it best;

"No one said life is fair, pilgrim. It's even harder when you're stupid."

I'll give you the benefit of not being stupid so what are they teaching you for 6 hours a day in school...not science, not grammar....exactly what?
 
8

8603103a

Guest
Re: raptorborealis

Excuse me,can i know what is your meaning?
 
R

rubicondsrv

Guest
Re: raptorborealis

8603103a":280ak4h6 said:
Excuse me,can i know what is your meaning?

the meaning is that you are ignorant of reality.....
 
8

8603103a

Guest
Re: rubicondsrv

you are absolutely wrong,2029 (or 2036) isn't 2010 ,maybe the humans will improve their tech. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
R

rubicondsrv

Guest
Re: rubicondsrv

8603103a":17zzpm9s said:
you are absolutely wrong,2029 (or 2036) isn't 2010 ,maybe the humans will improve their tech. :lol: :lol: :lol:
and who will pay for this rapid improvement???

faster, better, cheaper....pick any two.....


deliberately making vast improvements fast is very costly, and in case you haven't noticed, the days of "free money" are over...
 
A

adrenalynn

Guest
Any example of that would be the early space program. Kennedy spent anything and everything necessary to beat the Ruskies to the moon. _Anything_.

One of the problems with what you're suggesting is that you can't wait until the last minute - either in development or in deployment. It's not _THAT_ close.

There has to be a good reason to spend that money and jump that fast. Beating the Ruskies was deemed to be worth the price. Give us one good reason why we should dump a trillion dollars into building a colony on a dead rock with no future?
 
Y

Yuri_Armstrong

Guest
As stated above, I agree with the idea of space colonization but colonizing Apophis can not and will not be done any time soon. For one thing it's extremely difficult to get NASA to take such bold steps and spend the kind of money necessary for that. Secondly there are far better places to choose from. Sustaining a science outpost on an asteroid would be difficult enough, but a whole city like you are talking about is impossible on an object only a few hundred meters big and with no natural resources to provide it with ISRU. Asteroids contain trillions of dollars worth of precious metals but aside from that are not really good candidates for colonization. The most productive thing to have there would be a government science outpost, that may be used to launch further missions due to its low gravity.
 
A

adrenalynn

Guest
As a tax-payer, I want to know what my ROI (Return On Investment) would be?
 
Y

Yuri_Armstrong

Guest
adrenalynn":fzoqn8bn said:
As a tax-payer, I want to know what my ROI (Return On Investment) would be?
Scientific knowledge and technological advancement of course.
 
C

csmyth3025

Guest
adrenalynn":dpetw4ug said:
As a tax-payer, I want to know what my ROI (Return On Investment) would be?
Aside from the technological advances such as our space efforts to date have provided us (communications, GPS, improved solar cells, etc), your return on investment would be a lot of people kept gainfully employed doing something constructive.

I wonder if there were taxpayers asking the same question in 1955 when Eisenhower was advocating funding for the interstate highway system (planning for which dates back as far as 1921, according to Wikipedia).

Chris
 
Y

Yuri_Armstrong

Guest
Also this isn't an ask the astronomer question. It's more like ask the engineer, it should be moved to Space technology.
 
A

adrenalynn

Guest
I'll let this go... My point being that it's private industry's job to put people to work, not the tax payer's. The highway system is infrastructure. People playing footsie on a space rock? Not infrastructure.
 
C

csmyth3025

Guest
adrenalynn":2kne7715 said:
I'll let this go... My point being that it's private industry's job to put people to work, not the tax payer's. The highway system is infrastructure. People playing footsie on a space rock? Not infrastructure.
My point being that we need to build a minimal infrastructure upon which private industry can develop - sort of like the internet's progenitor, Arpanet.

I do agree that an outpost on apophis is not infrastructure, though. Since that's the subject of this thread, I'll have to agree that there are better ways to spend the taxpayer's money.

Chris
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
Another reality check post. Apophis only comes close to earth (< 0.1 AU) once in the next 18 years. That's in 2 1/2 years.
at 38 times the distance to the moon. After that, it gets no closer until 2029, the very close approach. At that time, it will be moving about 4 km/sec relative to the earth.

So which is better, the moon, a place 1 Lunar Distance away (at all times) moving at 1 km/sec relative to the earth, and 1/6 earth gravity,or an asteroid that is 38 times further away for an instant, moving 4 times as fast that won't be as close again for 16 years, with almost no gravity. Hmmmm
 
A

adrenalynn

Guest
csmyth3025":u01x3cg5 said:
My point being that we need to build a minimal infrastructure upon which private industry can develop - sort of like the internet's progenitor, Arpanet.

I do agree that an outpost on apophis is not infrastructure, though. Since that's the subject of this thread, I'll have to agree that there are better ways to spend the taxpayer's money.

I think we'll end-up in that really rare position of agreeing to agree on this one. :)

Although we could insult each other a few times first. Give the Mods something to do... :lol:
 
8

8603103a

Guest
ok,i agree with some comments that we only build a scientific outpost there only with artifical gravity,the town project we will commence it on the moon.
 
Y

Yuri_Armstrong

Guest
8603103a":32vhx9qm said:
ok,i agree with some comments that we only build a scientific outpost there only with artifical gravity,the town project we will commence it on the moon.
I don't even think Apophis is being considered for the upcoming asteroid mission, and as MeteorWayne said building an outpost there or even going there is basically pointless because there are much better candidates elsewhere. A town on the moon has always been though up by engineers but it won't spring up overnight. It will require years of government ISRU and science work before we start seeing a small town grow there.
 
B

bdewoody

Guest
MeteorWayne":1v5xmjoa said:
Another reality check post. Apophis only comes close to earth (< 0.1 AU) once in the next 18 years. That's in 2 1/2 years.
at 38 times the distance to the moon. After that, it gets no closer until 2029, the very close approach. At that time, it will be moving about 4 km/sec relative to the earth.

So which is better, the moon, a place 1 Lunar Distance away (at all times) moving at 1 km/sec relative to the earth, and 1/6 earth gravity,or an asteroid that is 38 times further away for an instant, moving 4 times as fast that won't be as close again for 16 years, with almost no gravity. Hmmmm
My point exactly. Why do so many write off the moon as a "been there done that" goal? All the things our young dreamer here wants to do are achieveable on the moon where our first off world colony should be. I would be so proud to watch a colony on the moon begin and grow and it would be far less risky than trying to catch up to a wandering asteroid.
 
8

8603103a

Guest
Ok,i agree that it has better candidates than Apophis,which is the best Near Earth asteroid candidates? Wehaveto do the asteroid colonization before other countries rush up.
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
8603103a":melfsryv said:
Ok,i agree that it has better candidates than Apophis,which is the best Near Earth asteroid candidates? Wehaveto do the asteroid colonization before other countries rush up.
Not really, there are plenty of asteroids to colonize depending on how many hundreds of billions you want to spend, and how many centuries you want to do it in.
 
N

neilsox

Guest
It seems to me the best strategy for an asteroid outpost is park the space craft about one kilometer from the ISS = international space station connected by a tether. We reel it in closer to add modules, make repairs and modifications. When ready for the manned flight, the crew of the asteroid craft live on the ISS most of the time moving to the asteroid craft each time a likely asteroid is spotted. The first report has large error bars, but the subsequent reports determine the orbit. If the computer indicates that the asteroid craft can rendezvous softly with this asteroid, the asteroid craft drops the tether and starts off in the optimum direction in minutes, unless a delay means less fuel or less travel time to the asteroid. For a slow asteroid traveling in the optimum direction the asteroid craft can land hours later instead of days, which reduces the crew radiation exposure. The asteroid will be less than ideal for an outpost, but that matters little as waiting at the ISS for more than a few months will cause problems and interfere with other functions of the ISS. There won't be enough fuel for a near term return to Earth, and the asteroid craft may not be repairable the next close approach to Earth, decades later.
Technology will advance, so the shuttle from outpost to Earth may be easy at the next close approach of this asteroid to Earth. I picture the asteroid craft about half way down a hole in the asteroid, so the below ground portion has low radiation exposure and unmanned supply craft can dock with the front which is above the surface. At their convenience the crew can excavate more living space near the mass center of the asteroid where radiation exposure is near zero, unless this is a rare asteroid with lots of radioactive isotopes. My guess is the small dimension of the asteroid can be as small as 30 meters, for good radiation protection. Neil
 
H

HopDavid

Guest
neilsox":3sdtamq3 said:
It seems to me the best strategy for an asteroid outpost is park the space craft about one kilometer from the ISS = international space station connected by a tether. We reel it in closer to add modules, make repairs and modifications. When ready for the manned flight, the crew of the asteroid craft live on the ISS most of the time moving to the asteroid craft each time a likely asteroid is spotted.
The crew would move to an asteroid craft each time a likely asteroid is spotted?

We have already spotted many of the asteroids and know their orbital elements with some precision. A time and place for asteroid rendezvous would probably be planned years in advance.

neilsox":3sdtamq3 said:
The first report has large error bars, but the subsequent reports determine the orbit. If the computer indicates that the asteroid craft can rendezvous softly with this asteroid,
That's quite a big if.

neilsox":3sdtamq3 said:
the asteroid craft drops the tether and starts off in the optimum direction in minutes, unless a delay means less fuel or less travel time to the asteroid. For a slow asteroid traveling in the optimum direction the asteroid craft can land hours later instead of days, which reduces the crew radiation exposure.
Let me get this straight. When an asteroid's spotted we take off for a journey of hours and softly land on an asteroid?

This is very unlikely
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY