China planning to build its own version of SpaceX's Starship

[Admin]

China aims to develop its own reusable megarocket over the coming decade, and it will look a lot like SpaceX's Starship vehicle.

China planning to build its own version of SpaceX's Starship : Read more

 

[Coverttrickster]

Small correction: "September 2025, when NASA's Artemis 3 " September 2025 is the projected Artemis 2 launch date.

 

[Philly]

China right now is really trying to clone the Falcon 9. Until Starship gets finalized, then they will try to clone that as quickly as possible. Most likely, Blue Origin will still stuck be on the launch pad.

 

[yus.simanjuntak]

China invented the rocket before space x or usa was even dreamed about.

 

[Rob77]

China invented the rocket before space x or usa was even dreamed about.

True, they did invent the first crude rocket (fire arrow as it was known). Not sure how this is relevant to SpaceX and the USA.

 

[yus.simanjuntak]

True, they did invent the first crude rocket (fire arrow as it was known). Not sure how this is relevant to SpaceX and the USA.

Rocket technology is rocket technology. Be careful accusing others of cloning things. The USA did it's fair share of cloning nazi stuff, and space x would not exist without freely available public data and knowhow from NASA accumulated over the past 60+ years.

 

[Zaphod the Elder]

Rocket technology is rocket technology. Be careful accusing others of cloning things. The USA did it's fair share of cloning nazi stuff, and space x would not exist without freely available public data and knowhow from NASA accumulated over the past 60+ years.

That may be true, but a foot long bamboo tube stuffed with 3rd rate gunpowder and a short wooden stick for a guidance system is NOWHERE near the modern technology of rocketry. Virtually zero overlap. You may as well compare a thrown rock (ballistic payload) to the sophisticated payloads of modern unmanned scientific spacecraft. Or counting out pebbles on an abacus to a modern supercomputer or quantum computer.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

It isn't about who got the basic idea first, it is about who is currently making the best improvements.

Same thinking about going to the Moon. It really doesn't matter if the U.S. got there first, if 60 years later China can get there and the U.S. has not been able to return.

Modern technology has many contributors from many cultures. Copying what others have learned is the normal path of progress, rather than isolated groups needing to "reinvent the wheel" for themselves at every step of the way to improving something.

We could make progress faster if we all agreed to share findings. But, when groups have conflicts with each other, it is understandable that each wants to have superior technology to its adversaries, and does not want to share something that would help an adversary if a war breaks out.

On the other hand, there is also the idea that without the threat of war breaking out, the impetus for doing technological research and development would be diminished or lacking, so that progress would actually slow down instead of speed up.

 

[George²]

rather than isolated groups needing to "reinvent the wheel" for themselves at every step of the way to improving something

Patent law forces you to reinvent the wheel every time you try to build a new product. You must be sufficiently distinct and not include forms and technologies that are the subject of a patent entry unless you obtain or purchase a right to use from the patent holder. This can also be a positive, as while inventing something different, you may discover more efficient constructs.

 

[avenuePad]

Patent law forces you to reinvent the wheel every time you try to build a new product. You must be sufficiently distinct and not include forms and technologies that are the subject of a patent entry unless you obtain or purchase a right to use from the patent holder. This can also be a positive, as while inventing something different, you may discover more efficient constructs.

Patent law does not "force you to reinvent the wheel every time you try and build a new product". That's ridiculous.

From Google: "The invention must be novel, have utility and it cannot be obvious to a person of ordinary skill in that particular art."

Let's take the wheel as an example. One cannot patent the wheel because it would be obvious to a person of ordinary skill that a round object rolls.

The car is an invention, and yet there are many different manufacturers of cars.

The same applies to rockets. Rocket technology is not novel. The Starship mould is likely obvious for those in the industry. Starship is a rocket. It has some flaps and wings, but those are again likely obvious to someone who works in aerospace.

 

[George²]

Yes, good. Obviously, I forgot to put the "wheel" in quotes, which means that I did not mean inventions and technologies that are not patented, but ones that are patented. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[avenuePad]

Yes, good. Obviously, I forgot to put the "wheel" in quotes, which means that I did not mean inventions and technologies that are not patented, but ones that are patented. Thanks for your understanding.

"Yes, good."? Huh?

Anyway, I wasn't implying that you specifically were talking about wheels, and I think that was obvious, but whatever. My point, which I also made in my post, was that rockets aren't patented and you can't patent things that are obvious to people in that particular field, i.e. rockets, cars, motorcycles, smartphones, coffee makers, lightbulbs, pencils, keyboards, etc... And this is according to actual patent law.

Your original response to the other commenter regarding patents was in direct response to the topic of rockets. Your response clearly implied that you were specifically talking about patents on rockets.

Good?

 

[George²]

"Yes, good."? Huh?

Anyway, I wasn't implying that you specifically were talking about wheels, and I think that was obvious, but whatever. My point, which I also made in my post, was that rockets aren't patented and you can't patent things that are obvious to people in that particular field, i.e. rockets, cars, motorcycles, smartphones, coffee makers, lightbulbs, pencils, keyboards, etc... And this is according to actual patent law.

Your original response to the other commenter regarding patents was in direct response to the topic of rockets. Your response clearly implied that you were specifically talking about patents on rockets.

Good?

Do you think that is right? I see rocket related patents. Just one Example(with expired period)

 

[avenuePad]

Do you think that is right? I see rocket related patents. Just one Example(with expired period)

Yes, rocket "related" patents. Like specific storage apparatuses, antennas, etc ... SpaceX does not hold patents on any direct rocket technology.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

When I posted "reinvent the wheel", I was not trying to be literal. But, patents expire, and the Chinese and Russians are not going to honor U.S., U.K., French or any other Western patent, anyway.

But, in general, when somebody sees a good idea and wants to use it without paying a patent holder, yes, they do have to make some distinction between their copy cat invention and the patented original. But, that is hardly "reinventing the wheel" from scratch. The idea has already been proven, and the goal is to just get around the patent.

So, I will stand by my statement that the technologies we use today were not discovered and built by any single culture, race, etc, all the way back to the discovery of how to use fire. People do communicate ideas, techniques and even products.

 

[TheRealDeal12]

China right now is really trying to clone the Falcon 9. Until Starship gets finalized, then they will try to clone that as quickly as possible. Most likely, Blue Origin will still stuck be on the launch pad.

China Will not stop trying to steal ideas from the U.S and other countries

 

[avenuePad]

China Will not stop trying to steal ideas from the U.S and other countries

Oh yes, because the US came up with rockets all by their lonesome.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

It is more a matter of who is doing the innovation and who is copying the innovations.

It isn't hard to get an idea. But it takes a lot of effort and financing to turn ideas into products that work.

If you are using somebody else's design, or test data, or manufactured products, to make your copy work, you are building on what they have accomplished, whether they shared that freely or tried to keep it a secret.

 

[Rob77]

Since there is no risk to reverse engineering the rockets at moment, the best China or any other player can do is to copy the concept of rapid re-usability as per SpaceX current design. This really is a non issue unless they go about stealing actual schematics & plans etc.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

It is recognized as a non-issue legally and ethically. But bragging "rights" are a different matter.

Something like stealing the SpaceX Raptor 3 rocket motor design would be a legal issue. but there is really no international enforcement capability, anyway.