China to postpone third manned launch for 6 months

thinice · Mar 5, 2006

From Xinxua: China to postpone launch of Shenzhou-7 spacecraft to 2008 BEIJING, March 4 (Xinhuanet) -- China will postpone the launch of its third manned space mission Shenzhou-7 spacecraft for about half a year to 2008, a senior consultant to the country's space program said here Saturday. "There is nothing wrong. We just need more time to prepare for the mission," said Huang Chunping, chief consultant for China's manned launching vehicle system, in an exclusive interview with Xinhua. Tang Xianming, director of the China Manned Space Engineering Office, announced last year that the next manned mission would take place in 2007 and would include a spacewalk. The timetable depends on when researchers can tackle the key problem of the space suit, which will play a critical role in the anticipated space mission that includes a one-man space walking, said Huang, a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC). Huang, commander-in-chief of the rocket system for Shenzhou-5, China's first manned mission, is in Beijing attending CPPCC National Committee's annual session, which started on Friday afternoon and will last about ten days till March 13. The Shenzhou-7 spacecraft is a complicated program, which will involve careful design, tests, modification, trial production, assessment by experts and experiments before final production, according to Huang. He promised that China is fully capable of tackling all technological problems. The Shenzhou-7 program is expected to carry three astronauts, while its predecessor Shenzhou-6 transport two into space for a five-day tour in October last year. China's first spaceman Yang Liwei made a 21-hour orbital tour aboard Shenzhou-5 in October, 2003, making China

mikeemmert · Mar 5, 2006

There's no pressure of a "space race". So they're going to take their time and do it right. It looks like they have succeeded in curing "Go fever". I hope they get their spacesuit fixed.

elguapoguano · Mar 6, 2006

They are making very good progress with each mission. I expect this next mission will make a great advance in their program as well. Yeah, it's nice to see progress, but the pace is soooooooo slow. I mean by the time Shenzhou 8 lifts off, ISS should be fully constructed, and Shuttle Retired, with CEV coming online soon.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Don't let your sig line incite a gay thread ;>) </div>

astrowikizhang · Mar 6, 2006

On the mission of Shenzhou 5 in 2003, the orbital module of the spacecraft was just more than a mockup. Yang sat in the descent module during the whole flight. It took 2 years to develop a full functional orbital module that has payload storage and where 2 taikonauts can enter to use toilet and sleep, on Shenzhou 6. It has 2 years to re-design the orbital module and add the airlock, where one of the crew can don his space suit and wait during de-pressurization before opening the hatch. I think the payload capacity and sleep station will be limited. Anyone knows how Russia did with the orbital module to perform EVA in the early stage of Soyuz program? Chinese space program allows the orbital module to stay in orbit after descent module separation. It has its own solar array and attitude control system that can maintain the orbit for 6 months. That is speculation about the some military usage of the orbital module. Another use of the orbital module is to be the target craft for the later mission, to verify the technology of rendervous and docking. (That is said to be able to cut a lot budget. But I don't think they can lauch two mission within 6 months. Any delay would ruin the plan.) Once again, the orbital module will be re-designed. Unlike the space projects in US, Chinese mannad space program remains to be a military and secret project. The public didn't know there was such a project until Shenzhou 1 lift-off in 1999, 7 years after the program started in February 1992. The program dosen't need bugdet approved by the law makers or public support. It is hard to estimate the expence. The official release is that 110 million USD cost of Shenzhou 6 mission that prepared for 2 years. The available information about the schedule and the goal of the project is also quite limited. The official media confirmed that China has verified its Kesoline/LO2 engine at a thrust of 120t, supposed to be used on the new

JonClarke · Mar 6, 2006

Ed White's space walk also nearly ended in tragedy, although in that case it would have meant the loss of the spacecraft and both astronauts. The hatch proved almost impossible to close and it was only White's (supposedly the strongest of the atsronauts) that managed to shut it. frank Borman wrote in his memoirs that he believed that no other astronaut would have managed it. Add the overheating experienced on the 2nd US sopacewalk and it is clear that the first EVAs were very dangerous. The Russians were planning other EVAs using Voskhod but these were canelled with the early end of the program. A pity in many respects, as the cancelled missions would have been sueful. In Soyuz the orbital block was depressurised and the crew emerged through a side hatch. I suspect that Shenzhou would be similar. I don't think the orbital modules currently flown have a side hatch though (or a front one for that matter). It will be interesting to see where it goes. On the mission interval issue it is slow, but then each mission is a major advance. The actual time needed to develop each capability is not too different to the US and the USSR, it is just they don't need fly multiple missions to validate each step. When it comes to the docking mission they will have to speed things up. Assuming they will dock to the orbital module of a previous mission, this means they will have to launch within 6 months, as no orbital module has yet spent more than about 6 months in orbit, as I recall. Jon Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

craig42 · Mar 7, 2006

At least if something does go wrong; Unlike the early American and Russian astronauts, they would have an orbital facilty to evacuate to for a bit.

astrowikizhang · Mar 7, 2006

"Unlike the early American and Russian astronauts, they would have an orbital facilty to evacuate to for a bit." I think the first Chinese EVA will not rely on an inflatable airlock. The orbital module will be depressurized and open a side hatch to space. Like Soyuz, Shenzhou has a side hatch in its orbital module where the crew enter the spacecraft and down into the descent capesule prior to launch. One crew performs EVA, the other stays in the safe and pressurized descent capesule. I doubt that descent capesule will be depressurized and added a external hatch. The unbaloonable EVA suit is a lot heavier and larger than the sokol-like suit current in use, and much more complex to put on. So I don't think both of the crew members can wear EVA suits in descent capesule. If it happened that EVA crew cannot re-enter the spacecraft, or the hatch failed to close, that means lost of the taikonaut. The other one can do nothing but to left the orbital module on orbit. The Russian has long experience on EVA that Chinese can simply "borrow". Just like they designed Shenzhou based on Soyuz. But I think they are asking too much from the orbital module. It is the cargo bay, sleep station, and a satellite on LEO. It will need to be the airlock and then the docking facility. The limited volume and weight of the vehicle does not allow to have so many applications efficiently.

astrowikizhang · Mar 7, 2006

"I don't think the orbital modules currently flown have a side hatch though (or a front one for that matter). It will be interesting to see where it goes." Yes, that will be interesting. Current orbital module has a side hatch to board the crews. No forward hatch is possible, because Shenzhou has a forth small "additional block" right in front of the orbital module. No information available about what is the use of the block. It will be replaced by docking hardware in the future missions, I think. "On the mission interval issue it is slow, but then each mission is a major advance. The actual time needed to develop each capability is not too different to the US and the USSR, it is just they don't need fly multiple missions to validate each step." Budget constrain is reflected that they can only keep 0.5-1.0 launch per year or even lower. So they want to do as much as possible on each mission. "Assuming they will dock to the orbital module of a previous mission, this means they will have to launch within 6 months, as no orbital module has yet spent more than about 6 months in orbit, as I recall." The VAB for Shenzhou has enough space to stack two LV. But that never happened, I think. And there is only one launch complex available for now. Each mission requires heavy re-design and I doubt they can produce two spaceship and LV in one year. I remember there was some new released that the mission control center had successfully control the orbital module for 100 days on orbit. But they never released what is craft working on over there. I doubt the efficiency of millitary use of it. It is not purposely designed for strategic reconaissance; it has no large mirror or antena; it is not put into polar orbit; it cannot return anything from the orbit; most of its volume is space for the crews.

JonClarke · Mar 7, 2006

"The Russian has long experience on EVA that Chinese can simply "borrow". " I imagine they would have to pay a good price for it. "If it happened that EVA crew cannot re-enter the spacecraft, or the hatch failed to close, that means lost of the taikonaut. The other one can do nothing but to left the orbital module on orbit. " You are assuming a two person crew here with only one going EVA. Shenzhou is larger than Soyuz and should easily carry 3 or even 4 at a pinch. As they would want to test out a 3 person version soon, it would be good to combine with an EVA mission. I don't think we can stay whether budgetary constrains are responsible for the low flight rate or caution, or whether this is the time needed to develop the hardware. As I pointed out earlier, the actual progress over time is not that different to that of the USSR or US in the 60's. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

gunsandrockets · Mar 8, 2006

"But I think they are asking too much from the orbital module. It is the cargo bay, sleep station, and a satellite on LEO. It will need to be the airlock and then the docking facility. The limited volume and weight of the vehicle does not allow to have so many applications efficiently." Supposedly the Shenzou spacecraft has a volume of 14 cubic meters of living space (including the orbital module). That is more volume than the Soyuz spacecraft and more than twice as much volume as the old Apollo CM capsule.

astrowikizhang · Mar 8, 2006

"I imagine they would have to pay a good price for it. " Yes. I remember that one (retired) person involved in the program mentioned in interview from a TV documentary (not a talkshow) that Russia did offer a solution to the launch escape system, but at tens of millions USD. The russian involvement of the program is purposely avoided by the official media when reporting Shenzhou 6, which was the first Chinese manned mission went live on TV. They want to create the impression that Shenzhou is 100% indigenous, inspite of its strikingly resemblance to Soyuz. It is revealed that all the taikonauts flew to space were trained and licensed in Russia. "You are assuming a two person crew here with only one going EVA. Shenzhou is larger than Soyuz and should easily carry 3 or even 4 at a pinch. " Yes, Shenzhou is larger than Soyuz. But current available resources, image and video, indicate that descent capesule has only three seats. It is not sufficient to seat 4 crews. Shenzhou 7 will be a two-men mission, one-man EVA is included in several news release since the success of Shenzhou 6. I think that is plausible. If it has 3 crews, maybe another one wearing EVA suit but stays in airlock to help the EVA one if needed. I think part of the reason they postpone Shenzhou 7 to 2008 is for propaganda, celebrating Beijing Summer Olympic Games.

astrowikizhang · Mar 8, 2006

"Supposedly the Shenzou spacecraft has a volume of 14 cubic meters of living space (including the orbital module). That is more volume than the Soyuz spacecraft and more than twice as much volume as the old Apollo CM capsule." Shenzhou's reentry capsule is 13% larger dimensionally than a Soyuz capsule. The " living space" consists 6 cubic meter of reentry capsule and 8 cubic meter of orbital module. Apollo CM capsule is at the same volume of Shenzhou reentry capsule, but Apollo LM also offers more than 6 cubic meter of volume as well. So the volume of Apollo is about 12-13 cubic meter.

gunsandrockets · Mar 8, 2006

"Apollo CM capsule is at the same volume of Shenzhou reentry capsule, but Apollo LM also offers more than 6 cubic meter of volume as well. So the volume of Apollo is about 12-13 cubic meter." That's silly. Why not compare the Apollo while docked with the LM to two Shenzou docked to each other? The fact remains the Shenzou is a remarkably volume/mass efficient spacecraft. Much more efficient than Apollo.

astrowikizhang · Mar 8, 2006

"That's silly. Why not compare the Apollo while docked with the LM to two Shenzou docked to each other? " Well, simply ignore the LM then. But I doubt that two Shenzhous will be ever docked together before 2010. "The fact remains the Shenzou is a remarkably volume/mass efficient spacecraft. Much more efficient than Apollo. " The fact is that Shenzhou reentry module volume/mass efficient comes from the bell-shape design. Apollo CM is cone-shape at low volume/mass ratio, but believed to be more reliable when re-entering at a higher velocity. It is hard to compare the two spacecrafts because they are designed for defferent purposes. But you can safely tell which one is better when Shenzhou goes to lunar orbit and back.

ragnorak · Mar 8, 2006

Why, why why? Why a six month delay? I bet its something like glove design. If they want to avoid EVA problems they should give the taikonaut a gas gun just as Ed White had.

astrowikizhang · Mar 8, 2006

" I bet its something like glove design." It'd be quite unusual to reveal a delay because of some technical problem. The Chinese tradition is not to mention the problem or difficulty unless the program abtains a total success. The program is largely classified and out of the access of public. An earlier Shenzhou mission is delayed by a serious accident that the mobile launch platform moved by mistake in a test, causing the rocket collided with the accessing platforms in VAB. That was not revealed at the time. The launch of Shenzhou 6 was not revealed until only days before the launch day. The lift-off on live TV got huge attention from the Chinese public. The space-related information filled up the main stream (official) media for more than a week. Everyone was wondering when will the next mission. I tend to believe they postpone the mission for 6 (or more) months to celebrate the 2008 Beijing Olympic games. Once again where will be a massive propaganda campaign.

astrowikizhang · Mar 8, 2006

"If they want to avoid EVA problems they should give the taikonaut a gas gun just as Ed White had. " No information about the detailed of EVA is revealed. No photo showing taikonauts training with EVA suit can be found. I want to see an indigenous design of the suit, but a copy of the Orlan suit seems likely. I think some umbilical connection will be used, the MMU is too heavy for Shenzhou and unsafe to use for the first EVA.

JonClarke · Mar 8, 2006

Timing missions for propoganda pruposes is always dicey in case something does wrong. Since the Chinese approach has always been cautious I suspect they won't do this. Do you have any official source saying that Sz will have only 2 crew? Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

astrowikizhang · Mar 9, 2006

“Do you have any official source saying that Sz will have only 2 crew? ” There is no official source about future missions. But sometimes a VIP involved in the project will release some information on an interview, like this: http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2006-02-24/02218286611s.shtml Sorry it is in Chinese. It is released on Feb 24. The information is quite vague. Shenzhou 7 will be a "one-boat-multiple-men" mission, not mentiond 2 or 3, and that is possible to have 1 or 2 men EVA for about half an hour. And Shenzhou 8 will be launched in 2009-2011. "Timing missions for propoganda pruposes is always dicey in case something does wrong. Since the Chinese approach has always been cautious I suspect they won't do this." Like the early space programs in US or USSR. The purpose of Shenzhou is for national prestige rather than science exploration. It is a major source of propaganda. So Chinese try the best not to make any mistake. That is why they never released a detailed plan or schedule officially. They'd worry about what if they failed the plan, so better not to release it. And they are less likely to talk about the difficulties they had or are having. The first goal of Shenzhou project is to lauch a the first test flight before 2000. But they had so many problems, e.g. failed test of the launch escape system, that some scientist recalled that the project "almost aborted" after investing a huge amount of money, that the tax-payer never knows. Finally they managed to launch Shenzhou 1 in Nov 1999.

no_way · Mar 9, 2006

I wonder what the chinese reaction will be if for example Korea starts sending people to space: http://hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=1091 and not on government budget ..

astrowikizhang · Mar 9, 2006

"I wonder what the chinese reaction will be if for example Korea starts sending people to space:" That will be interesting. Thanks for the link, which seems to be blocked by the Greate Fire Wall, and only accessable via proxy in main-land China. I think that'd not be any strong respond to the Korean project. The average people care little about things outside their everday life. They know little about projects like SpaceX and SSETI. If any private company send human to space, they will wonder why the foreign guys are willing to pay so much on that. Chinese people's respond to China's space program is mixing. Some people think China is taking the lead of space technology and the success of Shenzhou 6 means that Chinese missile will be invincible against US anit-missile system. Other people doubt the value of sending people to space as a national project requiring so huge investment. But most people, I think, are never interested in any space program.

China to postpone third manned launch for 6 months

thinice

Guest

mikeemmert

Guest

elguapoguano

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

craig42

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

gunsandrockets

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

gunsandrockets

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

ragnorak

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

no_way

Guest

astrowikizhang

Guest

Similar threads

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page