Creating a planetary magnetic field

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Leovinus

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Mars does not have a magnetic field. If people were to live there, it would be nice to have a magnetic field to help protect them from solar wind. <br /><br />The Earth has a magnetic field because it has an iron core that rotates. I don't think giving Mars a new core is very practical. But if all we need is some rotating iron, what would happen if we gave Mars a "belt" of iron around its equator? Would that provide a magnetic field? How big a belt would be required to provide an Earth-like field? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Post deleted by MeteorWayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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No, just rotating iron (not to menmtion the impracticality) doesn't buy you anything.<br /><br />It's a liquid iron core that creates a planetary magnetic field. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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silylene old

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An equitorial band of a high temperature superconducting material carrying a large current would be my choice. <br /><br />Or, for a much more interesting planetary magnetic field, shape that global superconducting band to look like the path the stitches take on a baseball. This would lead to a grand awesome aurora. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>
 
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kelvinzero

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I reckon something in orbit, perhaps created using one of the moons.<br /><br />Also, do we need to protect from cosmic radiation or just solar particles? Perhaps somethng much smaller could be placed at the lagrange point between mars and the sun just to defend against solar particles.<br /><br />You might want to place something there anyway to divert more sunlight towards mars. And the fact it can divert particles and light could be used to keep it in position without expending propellent.
 
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Leovinus

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Why does liquid vs. solid have an influence on magnetic fields? Is it that the atoms are more free to align? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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It is bacause the dynamo is created by the motion of the liquid iron.<br />I'm not sure I can explain it good enough.<br />Here's a link with some info; I'll see if I can find something else that goes into more detail on the physics. I am not an expert, just have a basic understanding. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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nrrusher

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<br />I think it also has to do with friction....there is a lot more friction in a liquid rotation than a simple solid....just a hunch.<br /><br />I think the development of solar arrays, solar shields, and the like is one of the most beneficial aspects of space development, four earth as well as other planets. As always, initial launch capacity is the only real bottleneck, but if that could be surmounted the benefits would be huge.<br /><br />
 
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Leovinus

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That was a very interesting article. Thanks for posting it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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No problem, I'm still searching for a more general one on the concept.<br /><br />I see I'll have time in about 3 minutes to search around <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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In this case, I guess the widpedia article is a good place to start?<br />I'm following the links for the best science. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Rats, forgot the first link<br /><br />Here's the first link <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />For further brain damage, try this <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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Leovinus

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I think this might be a subject for a thread all by itself. I have some questions about dynamos. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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To me, it seems to be the subject of the thread, so I'd say leave it here.<br />For what my opinion is worth <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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arkady

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I recall reading a similar thread, or was it a book?<br /><br />It seems that creating an electromagnetic field is the way to go. I know next to nothing about the math behind this, but apparently it is relatively simple to calculate the power needed to sustain such a field. And the result is actually surprisingly low. Perhaps a planetary field is somewhat of a challenge, but a local variant may actually have technical merit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "<font color="#0000ff"><em>The choice is the Universe, or nothing</em> ... </font>" - H.G Wells </div>
 
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Leovinus

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Well this thread was about creating a man-made magnetic field. The other subject is understanding how Earth's field works. Related but seperate.<br /><br />The dynamo in the Earth sounded like a perpetual motion machine: The core motion fed the field and the field fed the core motion. But we know that there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine although there can be such a thing as perpetual motion (conservation of momentum). So I'm thinking that the driving force that keeps the dynamo working is the momentum of the rotating Earth. So if the energy of the rotating Earth is the energy source for the dynamo, then the Earth should have eventually stopped rotating from the drag. Now I know that the Earth is slowing down, but I thought that was related to tidal friction with the Moon and Sun. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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silylene old

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Leo, I already said. Put a superconducting band around the equator, and put a current through it. No more maintenence required, since there is no resistance, the current will keep flowing. It will create a huge magentic field. Thats how we make the magnetic fields we use in NMR's (except that we wrap the superconductor coil around the NMR tube sample). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>
 
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Leovinus

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For that, we just need to know how to make a huge superconductor, and if coldness is necessary, how to keep it cold. I think the temperature of Mars, for example, is much too hot for a superconductor which I thought was a lot closer to absolute zero. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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The energy is the heat from radioactive decay and gravity.<br />When that runs out, then the dynamo will shut down.<br /><br />Any other thoughts on whether this should be two threads?<br /><br />Edited for atrocious typing<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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Leovinus

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I could see gravity as an energy source if it was something like capturing falling water in a dam or fusing hydrogen. Otherwise, I don't know how gravity is going to fuel the dynamo. Radioactive decay, on the other hand, is a great heat source. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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This is a fascinating thread.<br /><br />AFAIK, the Earth magnetosphere is due the the molten iron in the Outer Core conventing<br />& also having differential rotation, just like the Sun. <br /><br />The Earth's Inner Core is thought to be SOLID due to the immense pressure, preventing it to <br />melt. This Inner Core may be rotating slightly more slowly than the rest of our planet, <br />also causing further convection at the inner / outer core boundary.<br /><br />The Earth's outer core, appears to be liquid, with only 4% of the iron contained within<br />having solidified, so there is no danger of the convection ceasing, at least for <br />the foreseeable.<br /><br />The differential rotation of the outer core, is one reason behind the magnetic polar reversal, <br />as the Earth's magnetic field dips, becomes <br />entrapped within the Earth & then re-emerges in the opposite polarity.<br /><br />To kick start, Mars's magnetosphere is problematic at best. The mantle is thought to be solid with <br />at best a partially molten core.<br /><br />Unlike Earth, the core of Mars is thought to be a single layer, unlike Earth's double layered core.<br /><br />Mars's core could be a glimpse into the Earth's distant future one, when the outer solidifies <br />to a point that completely fuses with the inner one & becomes a single core.<br /><br />However, in Earth's case, that will probably never happen as the time scale is far too long.<br /><br />Our Sun would have become a Red Giant & then die long before that happens!!!!!!<br /><br />Radioactive decay would be a great source. I wonder if enough of radioactive<br />materials could be mined on Mars????<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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And we'll be part of the Andromeda-MilkyWay galaxy by then <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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nrrusher

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<br />Would it be possible to create a truly planetary field by using orbiting satellites to amplify/create one? Each with a nuclear reactor or something of equal power source creating its own local field that would then interact with the nearest neihboring satellites, and on and on around the planet???<br /><br />Perhaps, it could at least create safe zones on the planet, perhaps around the equators....<br /><br />Any thoughts on that?<br /><br />
 
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3488

Guest
Hi MeteorWayne,<br /><br />I forgot about that.<br /><br />In about 2.4 GY time if not mistaken. Our Sun will still be on the Main Sequence but<br />will be more powerful. I would expect conditions on Earth, to be quite unpleasant by then.<br /><br />Hi nrrusher,<br /><br />Sounds quite plausible. Satelittes could generate their own magnetospheres, & having each<br />correcty spaced with the mantra<br />Opposite poles attract, I think it could be done, as that could link all the magnetospheres <br />of all the satellites, creating a single huge one. <br /><br />I would think Nuclear power would be the only<br />viable option.<br /><br />Solar arrays would probably work, but they can get dameged during Martian meteor<br />showers, etc.<br /><br />For something like this, bearing in mind that average sunlight on Mars is only 44% as strong<br />as on Earth, these arrays would have to be HUGE!!!!!!<br /><br />With Nuclear power, it would be doable IMO.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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No. Sorry.<br />No way orbital satellites could significantly affect the earth's magnetosphere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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