dark energy a vacuum?

[Tapani_Talvitie]

Hi everybody,

I got an idea about the origin of the mysterious "dark energy". Maybe it could be caused by a vacuum outside the universe? If so, the vacuum might be trying to fill itself with matter and thus sucking the universe outwards. Of course gravity then would resists this vacuum suck. What you think about this idea?

Br,
Tapani Talvitie

 

[GraemeH]

Hi everybody,

I got an idea about the origin of the mysterious "dark energy". Maybe it could be caused by a vacuum outside the universe? If so, the vacuum might be trying to fill itself with matter and thus sucking the universe outwards. Of course gravity then would resists this vacuum suck. What you think about this idea?

Br,
Tapani Talvitie

Hi Tapani Talvitie,

The problem with your idea is that it does not explain the fact that the cosmological expansion would be present even in the abscence of matter in our universe. Dark energy appears to be an inherent property of space time (be it from vacuum fluctations or quintessence) within our own universe, rather than resulting from some external causal event.

Another issue with invoking external causes is that it then shifts the problem to another reference frame entirely and by inference, we can't limit ourselves to just considering one (for example, what causes the vacuum of your idea, another external vaccum?) until it becomes an infinitey layered "onion".

Just running with your idea for a second, how could we answer the question "Given 14 billion years, or thereabouts, why hasn't the system already come to an equilibrium pressure so that we find ourselves living in a static universe?"

Note that the "pressure" in the universe comes from matter wanting to collapse through mutual gravitational attraction - a force that is clearly within our universe. Dark energy resists this pressure by, in effect, applying a negative pressure. Dark energy appears to be an inherent property of space time (be it from vacuum fluctations or quintessence) within our own universe, rather than resulting from some external causal event.

 

[acsinnz]

Dark energy is probably caused by the electrostatic fields in space that are pushing the stars apart. There is an alternative electric concept of the universe that does not depend on gravity alone to try and explain everything.

CliveS

 

[kelvinzero]

Dark energy is probably caused by the electrostatic fields in space that are pushing the stars apart. There is an alternative electric concept of the universe that does not depend on gravity alone to try and explain everything.

CliveS

Probably in your opinion, not in the opinion of the vast majority of cosmologists.

Anyway...

One problem I would mention with the 'suck' theory, is that nothing really sucks anyway. When you suck on a straw, you are not pulling liquid up the straw, rather you are lowering the air pressure in your mouth so that external air pressure pushes liquid up the straw.

 

[ramparts]

CliveS - Dark energy isn't pushing individual stars apart (yet), just galaxies. The stars within those galaxies are still held together by gravity, as are the planets in our solar system; the distances involved are so much smaller than those between galaxies that the gravitational force is stronger, stronger than the pull of the dark energy.

 

[Solifugae]

Dark energy isn't really an explanation. It's just the placeholder for what ever's causing the observed phenomena of inflation. Some kind of weird "vacuum" that we don't and will never know about would therefore constitute as "dark energy", if such a thing could even exist.

 

[acsinnz]

Electrically, any large volume of charged material [like a galaxy] will repulse a similarly charged large volume of material [like another galaxy] by the inverse square law. The physics to expand the universe like this is straight forward but the problem is to work out what the total charge difference is between adjacent galaxies particularly between the super negative black holes at the centres of each of the individual galaxies.

CliveS

 

[MeteorWayne]

Except a galaxy is not charged.

 

[origin]

Electrically, any large volume of charged material [like a galaxy] will repulse a similarly charged large volume of material [like another galaxy] by the inverse square law. The physics to expand the universe like this is straight forward but the problem is to work out what the total charge difference is between adjacent galaxies particularly between the super negative black holes at the centres of each of the individual galaxies.

CliveS

What do you mean by, "the super negative black holes"?

 

[acsinnz]

Hi origin
If all the stars in a galaxy are assumed to have a larger or smaller positive charges [depending on their size] then they will all repel each other in an orderly way and spin around a central point. The overall effect [ as they cannot move outwards without pushing the boundaries with other surrounding galaxies] is that they spin around the centre which then appears to have huge gravity but is only an induced superimposed negative point.
Electrically, if we have a huge amount of positive charge in a system then it must be balanced by an induced negative or something somewhere must move at the speed of light to balance that system.
CliveS

 

[MeteorWayne]

Except that stars are electrically neutral, so your idea fails.

 

[origin]

What he said.

 

[ramparts]

Yeah, that.

 

[FlatEarth]

Fail.

 

[acsinnz]

But how can you demonstate that stars are electrically neutral? All matter is made of balanced electrical charges; but that does not mean they are not electrical charged overall.
Unfortunately, we are unable to measure a voltage across space as we have no reference point to measure it from. But, we do know that there is a solar wind comprising mostly of H+ ions that are accelerating out from the stars towards us. The reason for this movement is because there must be a DC voltage attracting the flow towards us.
CliveS