Developing long range space travel

[ngc4303]

Hi, if anyone has any ideas about the creation of long range space travel, please post.<br /><br />P.S. Any links to research would also be very helpful. <br /><br />thx

 

[ngc4303]

Come on, don't be shy.<br /><br />Any post will do, I just want to hear some ideas.

 

[el_dioblo_krems]

Honestly If it goes past the atmosphere I count it as long range, but thats just me.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

<font color="yellow"> Hi, if anyone has any ideas about the creation of long range space travel, please post. text </font><br /><br /> Yes, Nuclear Thermal Propulsion: NTP<br /><br />The MITEE Engine <br /><br /> MITEE Engine #2 <br /><br /> Nuclear gas-core-reactor rockets <br /><br /> You want to explore the Solar System? You gotta go Nuclear.<br /><br /> NuclearSpace: The Pro-Nuclear Space Movement <br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[spacester]

The British Planetary Society pioneered this subject, um IIRC in the 1960s or even earlier. Google that with 'interplanetary'.<br /><br />The leading concept called for a pilot device, presumably a companion vessel to the main ship, to be some large distance ahead charged with the task of deflecting the interstellar dust impact at near relativistic velocities. Clearing the way by taking the hits instead.<br /><br />"Charged", get it? Hehehe. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Aetius]

My bet is on solar sails, deployed from and to the Lagrange points, for cargo...if the concept can be made to work.<br /><br />I'd stick with nuclear propulsion for the people. The faster you can get colonists off the Earth and into a habitat structure with proper radiation shielding and <i>some</i> kind of gravity (or pseudogravity), the better. Interplanetary space is no place for humans to loiter.<br /><br />Unless Galactic Cosmic Rays turn me into a handsome mutant with x-ray vision, I don't want them. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[qso1]

1:<br />The private sector develops a low earth orbit industrial infrastructure and tourism industry.<br /><br />2:<br />NASA continues human exploration of the moon (Planning for a return to the moon is underway now) and mars.<br /><br />3:<br />The combined efforts of NASA and the private sector bring the private sector into deep space exploitation. Long range space travel would become somewhat commonplace if bases are established on mars, a moon or moons of Jupiter and so on.<br /><br />4:<br />From all of the above, the technology for interstellar travel should arise. The reason for interstellar travel involving humans should have also become apparent by then. That reason would be diswcovery of an earthlike world IMO. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[docm]

Best option IMO is high SI nuclear electric/plasma; MPD, VASIMR whatever. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[qso1]

Gotta agree there, especially for deep space human missions to mars etc. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[ngc4303]

What I meant by deep space was long range, such as travel to other stars, not travel between planets in our system.<br />wormholes for example.<br /><br />Solar sails I do agree with though, perhaps they could build up enough speed to get people to a distant star in a few generations.<br /><br />What about inter-stellar exploration where the explorer could live to see the end of their journey? A faster rocket, or even nuclear propulsion isn't fast enough to reach a distant star in a realistic span of time.<br /><br />Any other Ideas?<br /><br />

 

[Aetius]

I think Rogers_Buck hit the nail on the head in another thread when he said that species homo, as it currently exists, will not travel to the stars in the manner of sci-fi movie heroes. The journey will take centuries. It may even be undertaken by cyborgs or androids.<br /><br />I guess that's what irritates me about sci-fi outer space movies. They make it look as if travelling in our own star system <b>isn't</b> "long range", and is somehow unimpressive. We are as far away from understanding how to travel between the stars, as Aristotle was from the engineers and scientists of the Apollo program...in my opinion.<br /><br />It would be wicked cool if practical wormholes, hyperspace drives, or warp engines could actually exist according to our current laws of physics. But they can't, and I'd bet Captain Kirk's velour uniform that they never will.<br /><br />When we as a species can get to the point where 60% of our Mars-bound spacecraft can avoid being eaten by the Great Galactic Ghoul, then I'll stop considering Mars as "long range" space travel. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[qso1]

NGC4303:<br />What I meant by deep space was long range, such as travel to other stars, not travel between planets in our system. <br />wormholes for example.<br /><br />Me:<br />Wormholes, if they can be harnessed, might be the only existing possibility for SOL or FTL travel. A solar sail has one problem...the source of energy once it gets far enough from the sun that the sun is no different in appearence than a star. To explain better. The sail departs in January of a given year and takes five years to reach 5% SOL. Before that even occurs, it will reach a distance from the sun in which the sun appears as any other star. Not much of a solar energy source. At this point, there are no known technologies I'm aware of that can get humans to other star systems in their lifetimes or well inside their lifetimes.<br /><br />The only idea I can see is the one that hasn't come along yet. One that may simply be an evolution of an existing idea, or something completely new to us today. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

aetius:<br />I think Rogers_Buck hit the nail on the head in another thread when he said that species homo, as it currently exists, will not travel to the stars in the manner of sci-fi movie heroes.<br /><br />Me:<br />I think your both probably right, at least where travelling like current sci fi characters travel is concerned. We probably won't really have a reason to go unless we discover a planet suitable enough from which to operate a base for system wide exploration. Better yet, an earthlike world. Unmanned probes, androids, whatever, will probably do the bulk of interstellar travel unless or untill humanity begins to utilize such exotic concepts as hyperdrives, wormholes, whatever.<br /><br />Lets take an example of a human mission. Leaves for Alpha centauri. The first leg of such a mission will involve getting to the desired transfer velocity, say 75% SOL. The accelleration phase will require months at an accelleration of just over 1 "G". Once the craft reaches 75% SOL, the sun will be very nearly a star in appearence and the time it took to reach that velocity will have been almost a year if my calcs are accurate.<br /><br />But on day two of 75% SOL, the ship will have doubled its distance and the sun will be a star among relatively unchanged background stars. The view about the same for the next five or so years. As the craft reaches Alpha Centauri, it has to decellerate on a time scale similar to the accelleration. Six or more years to get to Alpha Centauri. A five year mission at the star system, and six years to return. Nearly 20 years to conduct a two way trip to the nearest star system, and one that might have an earthlike world. Imagine if we don't discover an earthlike world around AC. We find one many light years further off. A colonization mission would be the only feasible choice here.<br /><br />If or when humanity discovers how to do FTL travel, the star system exploration potential opens wide. Of course, colonization missions will be passed as newer FT <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

We have plenty to do in the Solar system. Necessity is the mother of invention. By the time we make interplanetary travel "common", who knows what will have been discovered.<br /><br />For crying out loud, 100 years ago we barely had airplanes. Give it some time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nexium]

No technology, I know of can get us to the Centarii system in less than 1000 years. Even 1000 years is wildly optimistic. In my opinion, our best bet, near term, is to put a pair of female humans in each asteroid that passes closer than the moon, if it is slow enough to catch. Children will be born with the help of a small sperm and embyo bank. As teenagers the children will want their own asteroid, and that will be easy, when another asteroid passes by slowly and closely. In many generations, millions of humans will live in asteroids, and a very few will be in comets heading for the Oort cloud. Getting supplies to colonists a light year away will be difficult, but not nearly as difficult as sending a human one light year. If better ideas happen, the colonists in asteroids and comets will have an important roll. Most of the colonist will have lots of liesure time to communicate on www.space.com and simular forums. Neil

 

[holoman]

Post deleted by holoman

 

[ngc4303]

I do agree that there are plenty of other planets and planetoids to colonize in our solar system. Eventually though, our sun will die and then what happens to us? I know that the sun still has half of its life span ahead of it, but we still have to start plans for preserving ourselves as a species. <br /><br />Some sort of large scale colony has to be set up off the planet earth, and so far I see no evidence that anything is being done about it. And please don't cite NASA's plans for lunar and martian colonization because we all no that NASA just sits therre sucking up govornment funds while pretending to work.<br /><br />Some sort of colonization fund or agency has to be set up to make REAL colonies on astral bodies such as the moon, mars or even asteroids.<br /><br />And BTW, dont be so quick to shoot down the wormhole theory, we already know that WE DON'T ENTIRELY UNDERSTAND PHYSICS, so we don't know if we could create an anomoly such as a wormhole. <br /><br />Still, something has to be done about creating a home for ourselves out in space.<br /><br />P.S. Please read more about solar sails and you will find that they are capable of incredible speeds if they first fly INWARDS, closer to the sun and the light source. Since there is no friction in space there is nothing to slow it down.

 

[spacester]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encounter_With_Tiber<br /><br />Spoiler alert!<br /><br />Coauthor: Buzz Aldrin<br /><br />Energy source: The Casimer Effect<br /><br />Propulsion: Laser Beam. A really big one, continuously operated for decades, in a polar heliocentric orbit.<br /><br />The craft rides the laser for several decades, achieving something like 0.1c to 0.5c (IIRC) peak velocity. <br /><br />They travel for a generation (~20-40 years?), then use a combination of methods to brake into orbit of the target star. They use the same sail they rode out on to bounce the laser beam off of to slow down. Then they stuff themselves full of goo and fire their engines as they swing by the target star at a periapse similar to Mercury's orbit, pulling 10+ gees to finally kill their interstellar velocity.<br /><br />They even made it into a round trip with the same equipment, but the jerks on Earth turned off the laser too soon! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Million ton payloads anywhere in the solar system with off the shelf technology.<br /><br />Orion Nuclear Impulse Propulsion<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

Exactly what kind of shelves do you have in that barn of yours? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Sturdy lead, steel, and reinforced concrete ones . . . .<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I've never seen sturdy Lead. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

apparently a big barn too....

 

[quantump7]

I totally agree with the wormhole idea. It's definitely the best candidate for distant space travel. <br /><br />I also think that the answer is in antimatter, too. There's no more efficient form of propulsion than matter-antimatter annihilation.

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"There's no more efficient form of propulsion than matter-antimatter annihilation."</font><br /><br />Oh? By what means is the M-AM annihilation harnessed in order to provide propulsion? Put another way, I'm not looking for detailed tech specs. In simple terms, using Newton's Third Law, what provides the action?