Does this sound like a satellite or space debris?

[ramayana]

This post might not belong in this forum, hah!<br />But it don't think this was a alien spacecraft or something like that.. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I did just observe something I think was maybe a satellite or space debris... Can anyone tell me if this sounds like that? <br />Approx 7:15 Pacific standard time. I'm in Southern California'<br />I'm just learning the sky so bear with me, I don't know all tech jargon <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I was facing west looking for a faint object to observe with my 10x50 Bushnell binoculars. I spotted a faint object at approx 55-60 degrees with the horizon west as reference for 0... <br />It was rather dim, no flashing lights, just one faint luminance.<br />It was going pretty fast, not like a meteor tho, it had no tail.<br />I observed it for about 1 min maybe a tad bit longer, til it went off into the haze of the horizon (west), that would about 30 degrees in SoCal haha! <br />I observed it going east to west from about 55-60 degrees high facing west to about 30 degrees high facing west.<br />It was dimmer than what I thought a satellite would be, about the luminance of a faint star as thats what I was looking for... sound like a satellite or some big space debris? I seemed to be very high altitude, I mean I thought it was star, as that's exactly what It looked like but it was definitely moving <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> but the altitude could be deceiving... It would not have stood out to anyone whos eyes were not night adjusted either...<br />I thought it was interesting... It never seemed to change trajectory either... <br /><br />I don't have alot of experience at night sky observing except the typical star gazing, so, I really don't know what it was <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[ramayana]

Space station maybe? Sure seemed too fast for a orbital object tho.. It covered like 30 degrees of sky in about 1 to 1.5 mins... But like I siad I can't claim to have much knowledge in this area. Even high airplanes I've seen you can make out the flash and the red lights... It had the exact same appearance and depth of the stars I was scanning... <br />The luminance was constant. I'm certain it was not meteor...<br /><br />Oh well, there goes my credibility out the window...lol

 

[qso1]

It could be a satellite or space debris. Space station would be pretty bright and travelling in the opposite direction. Space station would appear coming from the northwest to southest or southwest to northeast depending on whether it was on the ascending or descending node of its orbit and because of its rather high inclination of 51.6 degrees.<br /><br />Your description sounds like a satellite in a fairly high inclination orbit but observed on the descending node of an orbit opposite of what is usually observed.<br /><br />Not very many spacecraft travel east to west. Most are launched due east at varying inclinations. Exceptions to this would be polar orbiting craft launched from Vandenberg AFB and satellites launched from Israel are forced to go east to west due to overflight of arab territory if launched eastward.<br /><br />The reason spacecraft are launched eastward is to take advantage of earths rotational velocity which is about 1,000 mph at the equator. This advantage drops off with increase in inclination till there is virtually no advantage when launched into polar orbit and a loss of advantage as in Israels case if launched towards the west.<br /><br />Its also possible you saw an extreme high altitude aircraft. Those usually but do not always have a contrail depending on atmospheric conditions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

It really is the wrong direction for a satellite, however if it was more north to south or south to north that would be possible.<br /><br />Satellites can be of any brightness up to about Mag -9 (Iridium Flares).That's over 10 times brighter than Venus. The ISS is about mag -1 or brighter (like the brightest star-Sirius). Most satellites are much dimmer, in fact if you know where to look and have binoculars, you can see fainter ones than you would be able to see with the naked eye.<br /><br />Because of the direction, I'd suspect it was a high altitude aircraft. Contrails only occur when atmospheric conditions are favorable, in any case unless the moon is present you might not even see a contrail.<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Yes Ramayana.

 

[ramayana]

OK, I thought so... thanx <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />The appearance makes me think satellite, the speed and heading sound like airplane... Our what qso1<br /> said In either case, it's all good <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[ramayana]

Hey, <br />this couldnt have been it, could it?<br /><br />19h17m56s Seasat<br />(10967 1978-064-A)<br /><br />¨Ground track ¨Star chart Appears <br />19h17m53s 3.4m az:301.7d WNW h:65.1d<br />Transit 19h17m56s 3.4m az:297.6d WNW h:65.1d dist:825.7km alt:757.4km<br /><br />Disappears 19h25m05s 7.1m az:214.0d SW <br /><br />the times are right... seems to be going north to south though.<br /><br />Found that here CalSky<br />

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>It really is the wrong direction for a satellite, however if it was more north to south or south to north that would be possible. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Satellites can be observed going that direction even if they are in nearly equatorial orbits -- and even if they are orbiting prograde! Weird but true. Basically, it depends on whether you are observing it on the ascending node or the descending node of the orbit. The ascending node is when it's "rising" (going northwards), and the descending node is the reverse. The two nodes occur on opposite sides of the orbit, which is really the key to understanding the geometry of the situation.<br /><br />I've personally seen the same exact satellite go east to west, and on other occasions west to east. Since the plane of the orbit precesses at a regular period, it's only a matter of time before you start seeing it going the other way (because the plane of its orbit has shifted by 90 degrees relative to your position, even though its actually still travelling around the Earth in the same direction). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Calli,<br /> I hate (I mean I really hate) to disagree here, but if you look at the physics, you'll see it's wrong. To quote Kirk and Spock, referring to Kahn, you are thinking two dimensionally.<br /><br />A satellite launched in a west to east orbit will always be travelling west to east above the surface.. If you could peer through the globe, it indeed would be moving east to west, but were you looking at the sky from the other side of the globe, it will be moving west to east.<br /><br />Do what I do when presented with a mental conundrum involving the earth. Grab a globe (preferably a properly mounted 23 1/2 degree inclined one) and put a satellite in orbit around it, launched west to east. I use on old fashioned wire hanger for this type of demonstration...found it in the back of the closet next to the LP collection. Put arrows on it to show direction of motion, then follow an orbit around as you rotate the earth. No matter what, a launch in an easterly direction travels the same direction over the local surface. West to east. Even if you use the ISS/MIR/russian inclination of 60 degrees, it still moves nnw-sse, or SSW to NNE.<br /><br />I should note that there are some satellites launched to travel in the opposite direction. The russians have several rocket bodies in highly inclined (near polar) orbits that do indeed travel slightly retrograde. If they did it, I would expect our DOD probably did too.<br /><br />But for the observer, the path would still appear polar.<br />A true east to west trajectory probably could not be accomplished at launch, but would require some deft maneuvering around a source of energy (i.e. the moon )where you could use something other than propellant to shift the orbit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

*shrugs*<br /><br />You can think of it however you like, but I like to watch satellites, and in my experience prograde satellites can seem to be travelling "backwards", or at least in a radically different direction than the previous night. It depends on how straightforward a perspective you're getting on their orbital path.<br /><br />Two-dimensional thinking? Not at all. But in your three-dimensional thinking, make sure you consider not only the object's orbit but the observer's position relative to it. I am not suggesting that objects travel east-west on one side of their orbit, and west-east on the other. I'm suggesting that because you aren't always looking dead-on at the object as it passes by, the perspective isn't as simple as you might think. Call it an optical illusion if you like.<br /><br />As I come to think of it, I don't think I've seen any appear to travel due east to due west. I think this sort of apparent reversal of direction only occurs when the object's path through the sky (as perceived by the observer) is at an angle. I doubt it could occur between two passes where the object is travelling directly overhead; that's the most straightforward perspective you can have on the object, and there should be little or no confusion as to its actual direction of travel in that situation. <br /><br />EDIT: I imagine there is also a lower limit to the inclination of an orbit that can produce such apparent behavior. I've seen it with the ISS, which orbits at 51 degrees. Of course, here in Minnesota I'm kinda limited as to which satellites I can see. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm at 45 degrees north, after all. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>