EADS to build manned ATV for ESA?

[aphh]

<p>EADS has plans to build a manned ATV should ESA member states choose to order one. The system seems to derive from a modified ATV with a small command module for a crew of 3 on top of it complete with entry and abort capabilities.</p><p>More info and pics here: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/europe-hopes-ju.html </p>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

<font size="2">I can't help but wonder why it's going to be 10 years before they have manned capability. They've got everything else already.</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I can't help but wonder why it's going to be 10 years before they have manned capability. They've got everything else already. <br />Posted by boris1961</DIV></p><p>It is good to hear that the French are finally going to develop an ATV.&nbsp; But couldn't they just buy one from Honda, Yamaha or Polaris?<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[scottb50]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It is good to hear that the French are finally going to develop an ATV.&nbsp; But couldn't they just buy one from Honda, Yamaha or Polaris? <br /> Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p>Maybe they don't like mixing the oil and gas.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[keermalec]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I can't help but wonder why it's going to be 10 years before they have manned capability. They've got everything else already. <br />Posted by boris1961</DIV></p><p>Well it takes time to spend 2 billion Euro, even if you have everything already.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /></p><p>No seriously I&nbsp;suppose it&nbsp;must have&nbsp;to do with developing the infrastructure on Earth for manned space flight, training camps and such. The tentative scheduling is: 2013 unmanned returnable vehicle, 2017, manned returnable vehicle. But even so it does seem somewhat longish: if we look back to the first satellite (1957) and first man is space (1961), it took only 4 years to go from no sapce capability to&nbsp;man in space. Were those different times?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><br /><br />&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>“An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” John F. Kennedy</em></p> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well it takes time to spend 2 billion Euro, even if you have everything already.No seriously I&nbsp;suppose it&nbsp;must have&nbsp;to do with developing the infrastructure on Earth for manned space flight, training camps and such. The tentative scheduling is: 2013 unmanned returnable vehicle, 2017, manned returnable vehicle. But even so it does seem somewhat longish: if we look back to the first satellite (1957) and first man is space (1961), it took only 4 years to go from no sapce capability to&nbsp;man in space. Were those different times?&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by keermalec</DIV></p><p>I am hoping the time is spent to prepare for a moonshot aswell. In case there is a paradigm shift in NASA, and the moon program gets canned (which I hope won't happen), ESA could take the lead in the moonshot department with the new vehicle.</p><p>This could become the plan-B to get to the moon by the ballpark of 2020. That is always good to have.&nbsp;</p><p>With the recent success of ATV, all sorts of ideas are literally flying at ESA and also the human spaceflight seems to be picking up in the media aswell.&nbsp;</p>

 

[acidrain]

Iam wondering why it would take a 10yr period, they have the people that have been into space and i cant see how it would take 10yrs, i find that really odd. However, i think it is great to see other nation states getting involved and i would have to say its about time.

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Iam wondering why it would take a 10yr period, they have the people that have been into space and i cant see how it would take 10yrs, i find that really odd. However, i think it is great to see other nation states getting involved and i would have to say its about time. <br /> Posted by acidrain</DIV></p><p>If it was built faster it would be cheaper. These government agencies and their large vendors are essentially giant jobs programs. Having worked in one such place for several years I think I can safely say it. </p><p>Thousands and thousands of people will have a job next year also, but as a result we're stuck on earth orbit for 35 years now. </p>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If it was built faster it would be cheaper. These government agencies and their large vendors are essentially giant jobs programs. Having worked in one such place for several years I think I can safely say it. Thousands and thousands of people will have a job next year also, but as a result we're stuck on earth orbit for 35 years now. <br />Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>The time taken depends on the budget allocated.&nbsp; tTe smaller the budget the longer it takes.&nbsp; </p><p>I have worked&nbsp;for a government agency for a number of years now and it certainly isn't a job's program there.&nbsp; We work bloody hard for less than half what we could be paid in industry and could do with twice the staff.</p><p>Jon</p><p><br /><br />&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The time taken depends on the budget allocated.&nbsp; tTe smaller the budget the longer it takes.&nbsp; I have worked&nbsp;for a government agency for a number of years now and it certainly isn't a job's program there.&nbsp; We work bloody hard for less than half what we could be paid in industry and could do with twice the staff.Jon&nbsp; <br /> Posted by jonclarke</DIV></p><p>I know a lot of real work is done in the government agencies and by the agencies, so my wording was unnecessarily generalising.</p><p>However, Scaled Composites is about to roll out a completely new air/space launch platform and vehicles, that were designed and built from scratch in a few years instead of decades. They also don't have thousands of employees or budgets in the billions.&nbsp;</p>

 

[aphh]

<p>In the organization that I worked for the attitude often was like 'why build it for 500 million in 5 years, when we could build it for a billion in 10 years' (not referring to any company mentioned in this thread).</p><p>This mindset was a bit too prevalent and dogmatic for my tastes.&nbsp;</p>

 

[JonClarke]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>In the organization that I worked for the attitude often was like 'why build it for 500 million in 5 years, when we could build it for a billion in 10 years' (not referring to any company mentioned in this thread).This mindset was a bit too prevalent and dogmatic for my tastes.&nbsp; <br />Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>The key word there is "company".&nbsp; I have encountered that attitude in industry too.</p><p>Jon<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[pmn1]

If ATV had been proposed rather than Hermes and accepted, where would European space be now? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If ATV had been proposed rather than Hermes and accepted, where would European space be now? <br /> Posted by pmn1</DIV></p><p>Atleast there would be a Soyuz-like ATV for manned orbital missions, that would have been developed and built alongside with the freighter version.&nbsp;</p><p>In which case NASA would not need to rely solely on the Russians for transport, but the French aswell.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />&nbsp;&nbsp; </p>