Question Earth Moon Origin

[Harry Costas]

Could this spin offer a solution to moon forming?

[Submitted on 30 May 2025]

Three fast-spinning medium-sized Hilda asteroids uncovered by TESS​

Nóra Takács, Csaba Kiss, Róbert Szakáts, Emese Plachy, Csilla E. Kalup, Gyula M. Szabó, László Molnár, Krisztián Sárneczky, Róbert Szabó, Attila Bódi, András Pál

Three fast-spinning medium-sized Hilda asteroids uncovered by TESS

Hilda asteroids, which orbit in a 3:2 resonance with Jupiter, serve as key indicators of dynamical processes in the early solar system. Their spin rates, an important probe of these mechanisms, can constrain their density and collisional evolution, offering valuable insights into their origin...

arxiv.org

 

[Harry Costas]

The search to be never ending in finding the origin of the moons.

[Submitted on 3 Jun 2025]

Clues for Solar System Formation from Meteorites and their Parent Bodies​

Bernard Marty, Katherine R. Bermingham, Larry R. Nittler, Sean N. Raymond

Understanding the origin of comets requires knowledge of how the Solar System formed from a cloud of dust and gas 4.567 Gyr ago. Here, a review is presented of how the remnants of this formation process, meteorites and to a lesser extent comets, shed light on Solar System evolution. The planets formed by a process of collisional agglomeration during the first hundred million years of Solar System history. The vast majority of the original population of planetary building blocks (~100 km-scale planetesimals) was either incorporated into the planets or removed from the system, via dynamical ejection or through a collision with the Sun. Only a small fraction of the original rocky planetesimals survive to this day in the form of asteroids (which represent a total of ~0.05% of Earth's mass) and comets. Meteorites are fragments of asteroids that have fallen to Earth, thereby providing scientists with samples of Solar System-scale processes for laboratory-based analysis. Meteorite datasets complement cometary datasets, which are predominantly obtained via remote observation as there are few cometary samples currently available for laboratory-based measurements. This chapter discusses how analysis of the mineralogical, elemental, and isotopic characteristics of meteorites provides insight into (i) the origin of matter that formed planets, (ii) the pressure, temperature, and chemical conditions that prevailed during planet formation, and (iii) a precise chronological framework of planetary accretion. Also examined is the use of stable isotope variations and nucleosynthetic isotope anomalies as constraints on the dynamics of the disk and planet formation, and how these data are integrated into new models of Solar System formation. It concludes with a discussion of Earth's accretion and its source of volatile elements, including water and organic species.

 

[Harry Costas]

This may not apply to the Earth and Moon.
It's worth noting the paper.

[Submitted on 4 Jun 2025]

Centaur Nuclei: Sizes, Shapes, Spins, and Structure​

Y. R. Fernandez, M. W. Buie, P. Lacerda, R. Marschall

We present a wide-ranging but in-depth analysis of Centaurs, focusing on their physical and structural aspects. Centaurs, originating from the Scattered Disk and Kuiper Belt, play a crucial role in our understanding of Solar System evolution. We first examine how biases in discovery and measurement affect our understanding of the Centaur size distribution. In particular we address the strong dependence of the census on perihelion distance and the broad distribution of Centaur geometric albedos. We explore the rotational characteristics derived from lightcurves, revealing a diverse range of spin rates and photometric variabilities, with most Centaurs showing low amplitude lightcurves, suggesting near-spherical shapes. Additionally, we investigate the relationships between Centaur orbital parameters, surface colors, and physical properties, noting a lack of correlation between rotational dynamics and orbital evolution. We also address the influence of sublimation-driven activity on Centaur spin states, and the rarity of contact binaries. We then discuss some observational and modeling limitations from using common observations (e.g. visible or infrared photometry) to determine diameters and shapes. Following that, we give some points on understanding how Centaur diameters and shapes can reveal the `primitive' nature of the bodies, emphasizing the important role occultation observations play. We also then assess how the Centaur size distribution we see today has been influenced by the collisions in both the primordial Kuiper Belt and in the subsequent Scattered Disk. Finally, we end the chapter with a short narrative of future prospects for overcoming our current limitations in understanding Centaur origins and evolution.

 

[Harry Costas]

Russia and China will set up a power station on the moon.
Hopefully, more info about the moon may lead to knowing its origin.

Google Search

 

[Harry Costas]

Impacts have had influences for over 5 billion years.
Imagine the mass accumulated.

[Submitted on 10 Jun 2025 (v1), last revised 11 Jun 2025 (this version, v2)]

Impact chronology of leftover planetesimals​

R. Brasser

After the formation of the Moon the terrestrial planets were pummelled by impacts from planetesimals left over from terrestrial planet formation. This work attempts to reproduce the impact rates set by modern crater chronologies using leftover planetesimals from three different dynamical models of terrestrial planet formation. I ran dynamical simulations for 1 billion years using leftover planetesimals from the Grand Tack, Depleted Disc and Implantation models of terrestrial planet formation with the GENGA N-body integrator. I fit the cumulative impacts on the Earth and Mars using a function that is a sum of exponentials with different weighing factors and e-folding times. Most fits require three or four terms. The fitted timescales cluster around t1=10 Myr, t2=35 Myr, t3=100 Myr and t4>200 Myr. I attribute them to dynamical losses of planetesimals through different mechanisms: high-eccentricity Earth crossers and the nu6 secular resonance, Earth crossers, Mars crossers, and objects leaking on to Mars crossing orbits from beyond Mars. I place a constraint on the initial population using the known Archean terrestrial spherule beds, and I conclude that the Archean impacts were mostly created by leftover planetesimals. The inferred mass in leftover planetesimals at the time of the Moon's formation was about 0.015 Earth masses. The third time constant is comparable to that of modern crater chronologies. As such, the crater chronologies are indicative of impacts by an ancient population of Mars crossers. The initial perihelion distribution of the leftovers is a major factor in setting the rate of decline: to reproduce the current crater chronologies the number of Earth crossers at the time of the Moon's formation had to be at most half of the Mars crossers. These results together place constraints on dynamical models of terrestrial planet formation.

 

[CreatedEvolution]

Harry Costas et al. Keep digging. The Earth-Moon system is very difficult to determine original angular momentum and original mass compared to present day values. The best data in astronomy uses solar eclipse records that can be traced back at least 2700 years ago.

Earth's days getting longer: study (Update), http://phys.org/news/2016-12-earth-...e=menu&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=item-menu

"Earth's days are getting longer but you're not likely to notice any time soon—it would take about 3.3 million years to gain just one minute, according to a study published on Wednesday. Over the past 27 centuries, the average day has lengthened at a rate of about +1.8 milliseconds (ms) per century, a British research team concluded in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society A. This was "significantly less", they said, than the rate of 2.3 ms per century previously estimated—requiring a mere 2.6 million years to add one minute."

Measurement of the Earth's rotation: 720 BC to AD 2015, https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2016RSPSA.47260404S/abstract

"Abstract New compilations of records of ancient and medieval eclipses in the period 720 BC to AD 1600, and of lunar occultations of stars in AD 1600-2015, are analysed to investigate variations in the Earth's rate of rotation."

Extrapolating beyond the solar eclipse records preserved from ancient history, is where everything gets very interesting

This contious existence that may last an eternity pertaining to our suns light. I have an interesting theory supported by this figurative eternal sun and earth or lasting a long time. I have my own theory because the impact theory is not supported by any evidence besides theory. You know it will only be a 1 minute difference this supports my emf theory that black holes form because there never truly is nothing and matter accumulates

With that being said an emf generated by a black hole plus the push of it heat would trap and form other bodies in orbit due to the sun or black holes bi products.

 

[Harry Costas]

Hello CreatedEvolution​

The Classical Black Hole, having a singularity, cannot form.
The reason why.
Transient condensates have dipolar electromagnetic fields that expel matter away from the core, preventing a singularity from forming.
Saying that.
Condensates with Quark, partonic, Axion, and Neutrino matter can mimic Black Hole properties, enabling an Event Horizon to form.

Our Sun is over 5 billion years old.
We know our Solar System may have passed through Interstellar matter Nebulae.
Also, there is a possibility that our Sun gained enough matter to increase the core to such a size to form an hourglass, probably over 6 billion years ago, ejecting matter forming the solar System as we know it.

In my opinion, the position of our Sun 25,000 light-years from the core of the Milky Way puts the age over 8 billion years old.

 

[Harry Costas]

The scientists writing these papers that I post should be credited and thanked for their work.

[Submitted on 11 Jun 2025]

No influence of passing stars on paleoclimate reconstructions over the past 56 million years​

Richard E. Zeebe, David M. Hernandez

Passing stars (also called stellar flybys) have notable effects on the solar system's long-term dynamical evolution, injection of Oort cloud comets into the solar system, properties of trans-Neptunian objects, and more. Based on a simplified solar system model, omitting the Moon and the Sun's quadrupole moment J2, it has recently been suggested that passing stars are also an important driver of paleoclimate before ~50 Myr ago, including a climate event called the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (~56 Myr ago). In contrast, using a state-of-the-art solar system model, including a lunar contribution and J2, and random stellar parameters (>400 simulations), we find no influence of passing stars on paleoclimate reconstructions over the past 56 Myr. Even in an extreme flyby scenario in which the Sun-like star HD 7977 (m = 1.07 M_Sun) would have passed within ~3,900 au about 2.8 Myr ago (with 5% likelihood), we detect no discernible change in Earth's orbital evolution over the past 70 Myr, compared to our standard model. Our results indicate that a complete physics model is essential to accurately study the effects of stellar flybys on Earth's orbital evolution.

 

[Harry Costas]

This is an ongoing process since the formation of the Moon.

Just as long as it misses Earth direct hit.

[Submitted on 12 Jun 2025]

The Potential Danger to Satellites due to Ejecta from a 2032 Lunar Impact by Asteroid 2024 YR4​

Paul Wiegert, Peter Brown, Jack Lopes, Martin Connors

On 2032 December 22 the 60 m diameter asteroid 2024 YR4 has a 4% chance of impacting the Moon. Such an impact would release 6.5 MT TNT equivalent energy and produce a ~1 km diameter crater. We estimate that up to 10^8 kg of lunar material could be liberated in such an impact by exceeding lunar escape speed. Depending on the actual impact location on the Moon as much as 10% of this material may accrete to the Earth on timescales of a few days. The lunar ejecta-associated particle fluence at 0.1 - 10 mm sizes could produce upwards of years to of order a decade of equivalent background meteoroid impact exposure to satellites in near-Earth space late in 2032. Our results demonstrate that planetary defense considerations should be more broadly extended to cis-lunar space and not confined solely to near-Earth space.

 

[Harry Costas]

Origin of the Earth and the moon and other planets may have the same origin

[Submitted on 4 Jun 2025 (v1), last revised 7 Jun 2025 (this version, v2)]

A Resonant Beginning for the Solar System Terrestrial Planets​

Shuo Huang, Chris Ormel, Simon Portegies Zwart, Eiichiro Kokubo, Tian Yi

In the past two decades, transit surveys have revealed a class of planets with thick atmospheres -- sub-Neptunes -- that must have completed their accretion in protoplanet disks. When planets form in the gaseous disk, the gravitational interaction with the disk gas drives their migration and results in the trapping of neighboring planets in mean motion resonances, though these resonances can later be broken when the damping effects of disk gas or planetesimals wane. It is widely accepted that the outer Solar System gas giant planets originally formed in a resonant chain, which was later disrupted by dynamical instabilities. Here, we explore whether the early formation of the terrestrial planets in a resonance chain (including Theia) can evolve to the present configuration. Using N-body simulations, we demonstrate that the giant planet instability would also have destabilized the terrestrial resonance chain, triggering moon-forming giant impacts in 20--50\% of our simulated systems, dependent on the initial resonance architecture. After the instability, the eccentricity and inclination of the simulated planets match their present-day values. Under the proposed scenario, the current period ratio of 3.05 between Mars and Venus -- devoid of any special significance in traditional late formation models -- naturally arises as a relic of the former resonance chain.

 

[Harry Costas]

The plot thickens.

[Submitted on 4 Jun 2025]

Centaur Nuclei: Sizes, Shapes, Spins, and Structure​

Y. R. Fernandez, M. W. Buie, P. Lacerda, R. Marschall

We present a wide-ranging but in-depth analysis of Centaurs, focusing on their physical and structural aspects. Centaurs, originating from the Scattered Disk and Kuiper Belt, play a crucial role in our understanding of Solar System evolution. We first examine how biases in discovery and measurement affect our understanding of the Centaur size distribution. In particular we address the strong dependence of the census on perihelion distance and the broad distribution of Centaur geometric albedos. We explore the rotational characteristics derived from lightcurves, revealing a diverse range of spin rates and photometric variabilities, with most Centaurs showing low amplitude lightcurves, suggesting near-spherical shapes. Additionally, we investigate the relationships between Centaur orbital parameters, surface colors, and physical properties, noting a lack of correlation between rotational dynamics and orbital evolution. We also address the influence of sublimation-driven activity on Centaur spin states, and the rarity of contact binaries. We then discuss some observational and modeling limitations from using common observations (e.g. visible or infrared photometry) to determine diameters and shapes. Following that, we give some points on understanding how Centaur diameters and shapes can reveal the `primitive' nature of the bodies, emphasizing the important role occultation observations play. We also then assess how the Centaur size distribution we see today has been influenced by the collisions in both the primordial Kuiper Belt and in the subsequent Scattered Disk. Finally, we end the chapter with a short narrative of future prospects for overcoming our current limitations in understanding Centaur origins and evolution.

 

[Harry Costas]

[Submitted on 23 Jun 2025]

Did lunar tides sustain the early Earth's geodynamo?​

Jérémie Vidal, David Cébron

Geological data show that, early in its history, the Earth had a large-scale magnetic field with an amplitude comparable to that of the present geomagnetic field. However, its origin remains enigmatic and various mechanisms have been proposed to explain the Earth's field over geological time scales. Here, we critically evaluate whether tidal forcing could explain the early Earth's geodynamo, by combining constraints from geophysical models of the Earth-Moon system and predictions from rotating turbulence studies. We show that the Moon's tides could be strong enough before -3.25 Gy to trigger turbulence in the Earth's core, and possibly dynamo action in the mean time. Then, we propose new scaling laws for the magnetic field amplitude B. We show that B \propto \beta^{4/3}, where \beta is the typical equatorial ellipticity of the liquid core, if the turbulence involves weak interactions of three-dimensional inertial waves. Otherwise, we would expect B \propto \beta if the amplitude of tidal forcing were strong enough. When extrapolated to the Earth's core, it suggests that tidal forcing alone was too weak to possibly explain the ancient paleomagnetic field. Therefore, our study indirectly favours another origin for the early Earth's geodynamo on long time scales (e.g. the exsolution of light elements atop the core, or thermal convection due to secular cooling).

 

[Harry Costas]

The moon has played an important role in influencing the crust, mantle, and core, and the Earth's Axis. The evidence is fossilized in the sedimentary rocks 4.2 billion years ago.

[Submitted on 2 Jul 2025]

Constraints on Earth's Core-Mantle boundary from nutation​

J. Rekier, S. A. Trian, A. Barik, D. Abdulah, W. Kang

Periodic variations in the Sun and Moon's gravitational pull cause small changes in Earth's rotational axis direction called nutation. Nutation components in the retrograde quasi-diurnal frequency band measured in the terrestrial reference frame are amplified by resonance with the Free Core Nutation (FCN), a rotational mode of Earth's fluid core. Dissipative processes at the core-mantle boundary (CMB) dampen this resonance, contributing to the observed phase lag between tidal forcing and Earth's rotational response. This phase lag is commonly attributed to electromagnetic (EM) coupling between the core and the electrically conducting lower mantle. However, estimates of mantle conductivity and radial magnetic field strength at the CMB suggest these effects are insufficient. We show that the missing dissipation arises naturally from the excitation of internal waves in the fluid core by topographic features at the CMB. Adapting a theoretical framework originally developed for tidal flow over oceanic topography, we compute the form drag and associated power flux induced by CMB topography. Our results are consistent with a CMB topography characterized by a root mean square amplitude of a few kilometers. The model favors weak stratification at the top of the core, though stronger stratification remains compatible with increased topographic amplitude. This mechanism provides independent constraints on CMB topography and stratification, complementing seismological and magnetic observations. Its generality offers a new framework for probing deep-interior dynamics across terrestrial planets.

 

[billslugg]

In essence, this reports on the weather at the core/mantle boundary, complete with mountains.

 

[Harry Costas]

Hello Billslugg
Yes
Interestingly, the fossil evidence is more than 4 billion years old.

 

[Harry Costas]

The Earth and the Moon, and all the planets, have the same origin.
It is complicated and complex. Hopefully, one day we can have evidence to confirm the Origin of the Earth and the Moon.

[Submitted on 10 May 2025]

Origin of moderately volatile elements in Earth inferred from mass-dependent Ge isotope variations among chondrites​

Elias Wölfer, Christoph Burkhardt, Francis Nimmo, Thorsten Kleine

The bulk silicate Earth (BSE) is depleted in moderately volatile elements, indicating Earth formed from a mixture of volatile-rich and -poor materials. To better constrain the origin and nature of Earth's volatile-rich building blocks, we determined the mass-dependent isotope compositions of Ge in carbonaceous (CC) and enstatite chondrites. We find that, similar to other moderately volatile elements, the Ge isotope variations among the chondrites reflect mixing between volatile-rich, isotopically heavy matrix and volatile-poor, isotopically light chondrules. The Ge isotope composition of the BSE is within the chondritic range and can be accounted for as a ~2:1 mixture of CI and enstatite chondrite-derived Ge. This mixing ratio appears to be distinct from the ~1:2 ratio inferred for Zn, reflecting the different geochemical behavior of Ge (siderophile) and Zn (lithophile), and suggesting the late-stage addition of volatile-rich CC materials to Earth. On dynamical grounds it has been argued that Earth accreted CC material through a few Moon-sized embryos, in which case the Ge isotope results imply that these objects were volatile-rich, presumably because they were either undifferentiated or accreted volatile-rich objects themselves before being accreted by Earth.

 

[Harry Costas]

Hold onto your thoughts, the Origin of the solar system holds the key to the origin of the moon.

[Submitted on 30 Jun 2025]

Studying Protoplanets and Protoplanetary Disks with the Habitable Worlds Observatory​

Bin B. Ren

Since the discovery of the first exoplanet orbiting a Sun-like star, the confirmation of nearly 6000 exoplanets to date - and their diversity - has revolutionized our knowledge of planetary systems in the past three decades. Nevertheless, the majority of these planets are around mature stars (≳

Gyr), where the planet birth environments have already dissipated. Indeed, we have only confirmed 2 forming planets (i.e., protoplanets; ≲

Myr) residing in one single system. In comparison, we have imaged over 200 protoplanetary disks in the past decade, with many of them hosting substructures such as spirals and gaps which suggest the existence of protoplanets. To understand the early stages of planet formation, the Habitable Worlds Observatory (HWO) - with its high-contrast imaging and integral field spectroscopy capabilities - presents a unique opportunity to explore the demographics of the natal stages of planet formation and their birth environments. We propose to image protoplanets within substructured protoplanetary disks using HWO via direct imaging, and characterize them (i.e., protoplanets, protoplanetary disks, circumplanetary disks) using integral field spectroscopy and spectropolarimetry. This effort will dramatically extend current population of protoplanets, probing and characterizing over 200 protoplanets. By expanding the number of protoplanets by two orders of magnitude, these observations will test and refine planet formation theory and planet-disk interaction theory, and further motivate planet migration studies together with existing mature planets. The results will offer critical insight into planetary system formation and evolution, and help understand the origin of our own Solar System.