Fast Track a Human Rated Atlas V?

[sftommy]

Most political objections to the 2011 proposed budget would be mollified by this addition.

Itemized pros:
1. Several space ventures are already planning for it, Orion, Bigelow, …
2. Share development cost with the US Air Force so as to provide it with an additional manned capability to augment its X-37 programs evolution.
3. Development via Lockheed Martin and ULA would mean fewer jobs lost in Colorado.
4. Florida, and its infrastructures, will see more launches sooner.
5. Lockheed Martin claims they can have a human rated Atlas-V in 36 months!
6. Finally, America will have the best possible backup plan to the commercial launch efforts.

A robust NASA is better than a continuing resolution NASA.

Any Floridians want to suggest it to Senator Nelson?

 

[neilsox]

I'm not qualified to comment on any of those alleged pros, but fast track is scary = almost always over budget with lots of unpleasant surprises. Neil

 

[sftommy]

The plausibility of such an effort would of course be predicated on SAFETY!

I would challenge Robert Stevens, Chairman of Lockheed Martin to present this options timetables and costs publicly as an alternative for this congress to consider.


NOTE: among the attributes of such a measure; Wikipedia reports Atlas V production is being shifted to Decatur, AL. How many more Senators does it take?

 

[Principal_Investigator]

I don't think United Launch Alliance is interested in Human rating the Atlas V, unless Nasa or Congress is willing to pay for it. Remember ULA has been contracted by Nasa for decades using their despicable cost plus contracting. So to human rate the Atlas V ,realistically would only cost a few million dollars, ULA will only do it if they get a cost plus contract, go Dozens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars over budget, and deliver it several years behind schedule.

Thats the reason for shifting to Private Space in the first place. To do away with cost plus contracts and instead have Fixed Contracts, realistic prices, realistic timetables, and if the company cannot deliver on schedule and on budget, they are simply NOT awarded the contract. So no wasted tax payer dollars.

If you dream of Atlas launching americans into space once again, you must purchase a few and human rate them yourself (with permission from ULA of course).

 

[sftommy]

I don't think United Launch Alliance is interested in Human rating the Atlas V, unless Nasa or Congress is willing to pay for it

this is an obvious presupposition to all NASA efforts.

Contract terms are not proving to be much of a selling pitch to congress.
The loss of the US-human rated launch capability is.

Although I favor the private developers, a human rated Atlas V has at least as much political palatability.

Count the Senators, count the Reps?

How can we help make this congress work productively for NASA?

 

[scottb50]

I don't think United Launch Alliance is interested in Human rating the Atlas V, unless Nasa or Congress is willing to pay for it

this is an obvious presupposition to all NASA efforts.

Contract terms are not proving to be much of a selling pitch to congress.
The loss of the US-human rated launch capability is.

Although I favor the private developers, a human rated Atlas V has at least as much political palatability.

Count the Senators, count the Reps?

How can we help make this congress work productively for NASA?

I would think Atlas and Delta could easily be man rated. Required escape systems and such would limit passenger numbers with any booster, including Falcon.

 

[rockett]

I don't think United Launch Alliance is interested in Human rating the Atlas V, unless Nasa or Congress is willing to pay for it

this is an obvious presupposition to all NASA efforts.

Contract terms are not proving to be much of a selling pitch to congress.
The loss of the US-human rated launch capability is.

Although I favor the private developers, a human rated Atlas V has at least as much political palatability.

Count the Senators, count the Reps?

How can we help make this congress work productively for NASA?

I would think Atlas and Delta could easily be man rated. Required escape systems and such would limit passenger numbers with any booster, including Falcon.

Actually it has been and is being studied:
Human-Rated Delta IV Heavy Study Constellation Architecture Impacts
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...lKHSCQ&usg=AFQjCNEcXzEu0h58q-jweo_3htNElpnwzg

Study Finds Human-rated Delta IV Cheaper
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...ds Human-rated Delta IV Cheaper&channel=space

ELV Human Rating: Atlas Heritage and Future Potential
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...msWvCQ&usg=AFQjCNGGEAJQM_0c405nHJ4g-LO505ZO5g

Human Rated Atlas V for Bigelow Space Station details emerge
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2007/01/human-rated-atlas-v-for-bigelow-space-station-details-emerge/

 

[RVHM]

Why should NASA pay for man-rating Bigelow's rocket? Let Bigelow pay for the man-rating and then use it with Orion if necessary.

 

[bdewoody]

Lockheed/Martin is a private corporation which just happens to have government contracts. And I would rather ride on top of an Atlas just the way it is than anything being cooked up by any of the small start ups.

 

[RVHM]

Lockheed/Martin is a private corporation which just happens to have government contracts. And I would rather ride on top of an Atlas just the way it is than anything being cooked up by any of the small start ups.

Me too. But if NASA pays for human-rating Atlas V, in some way it's directly subsidising Bigelow by saving them all the costs they would incur otherwise for human-rating this rocket.

 

[stevekk]

Why should NASA pay for man-rating Bigelow's rocket? Let Bigelow pay for the man-rating and then use it with Orion if necessary.

Actually, Boeing and Bigelow are developing a new capsule. They don't need Orion.

 

[sftommy]

As Bolden searches for a raison d'être for Orion...
a human-rated Atlas gives him an easy-out explanation to Congress, (although Orions $4-7B cost that might be better invested elsewhere)

Still Orion helps bring in Colorado's congressional voting bloc.

There a window of 10-20 years where this type of human rated launch technology is needed, (scramjet space launches may come after in 20-30 years) Lockheed can price themselves in or out of this near term launch market.

maybe, just maybe, competition with SpaceX will encourage Lockheed to price the vehicles more competitively, more innovatively.