Fired Boeing Senior Aerospace Engineer Says 787 Is Unsafe!

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veritassemper

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This appears to be a very interesting story. The question is that is the engineer correct and 'blowing the whistle' on Boeing or is this an act of retribution on his former employers? What do you think?<br /><br /><b><font color="yellow">Fired engineer calls 787's plastic fuselage unsafe<br /><br />By Dominic Gates<br /><br />Seattle Times aerospace reporter<br /><br /><br />A former senior aerospace engineer at Boeing's Phantom Works research unit, fired last year under disputed circumstances, is going public with concerns that the new 787 Dreamliner is unsafe.<br /><br />Forty-six-year veteran Vince Weldon contends that in a crash landing that would be survivable in a metal airplane, the new jet's innovative composite plastic materials will shatter too easily and burn with toxic fumes. He backs up his views with e-mails from engineering colleagues at Boeing and claims the company isn't doing enough to test the plane's crashworthiness.............</font></b><br /><br />http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2003889663_boeing180.html<br /><br />v s<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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vogon13

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Aircraft already burn with astonishing quantities of toxic fumes.<br /><br />Any increase in the amount the 787 is going to make about as much of a noticeable bump as a fart in a hurricane will increase its top wind speed.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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davf

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I think he raises some very interesting points regarding the use of composites. Time will tell if he is right.
 
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SlyCoopersButt

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I'm fairly sure the airplane plastic is by far more flame resistant than your average plastic. Should be plenty of time to allow escape before it really gets too up in flames. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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a_lost_packet_

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While I am alarmed that there could be additional hazards for survivors to face in this aircraft in the event of a crash, I can't help but to rejoin that with:<br /><br />"I'm far more concerned about its air worthiness than its crash worthiness for some reason. Call me crazy, but..." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>
 
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vogon13

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Aluminum gets drastically weaker with temperature. Does the composite material retain strength till it is actually burnt ??<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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steve82

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It's not unheard of for a disgruntled former employee to surface safety concerns and complaints of wrongdoing after severing ties with their company. But it's also not unheard of for companies to build a case against and try to alienate whistle-blowers to get them out of the way. Hopefully, the FAA cert program will be neutral enough and rigorous enough to iron out all of these concerns. And there ARE legitimate concerns as far as the composites and lightning certification. Maybe FAA will do a more honest job on 787 than the Air Force did with Boeing's helicopter proposal. I expect software problems to manifest themselves with the compressed schedule, too.
 
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gunsandrockets

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<Aluminum gets drastically weaker with temperature. Does the composite material retain strength till it is actually burnt ??><br /><br />Good point. I don't know what the safety tradeoffs might be with composite structure, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it truly is -- a tradeoff.<br /><br />But this news story about toxic fire hazards is tailor made for typical hysterical coverage by the know-nothings of the news media.
 
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veritassemper

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<b><font color="purple">GUNSANDROCKETS</font></b><br /><br />Here is a link to discussion papers on composite materials which makes some comment regarding use in aircraft. It is by no means the information I was looking for especially fire resistance compared to aluminium structures. It would seem that only certain composites are beneficial in aviation in that regard.<br /><br />There is also the question of toxic fumes that composite materials produce when introduced to extreme heat. This gets an airing.<br /><br />I am still looking for something that looks at the aviation concept of composites versus aluminium in the structure.<br /><br />http://www.sciencemaster.com/columns/renneboog/renneboog_composite.php<br /><br />v s<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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davf

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And unfortunately for the Starship, the FAA took an extremely conservative approach to the use of composites for the airframe and required Beech to over-build it. The result? The Starships were tanks but they were also way overweight. So much for those performance promises! <br /><br />It's a shame Beech bailed on the Starship and bought them all (most of them) back and destroyed them. 20+ years of service may have generated some interesting data on long-term use of composites as primary structure.
 
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Smersh

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<font color="yellow">I think he raises some very interesting points regarding the use of composites. Time will tell if he is right. </font><br /><br />Surely the only way we will know if he is right though, is if a B787 crashes, which of course we hope will never happen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>
 
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davf

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Good point... LOL<br /><br />Actually, I was also thinking more about longevity and effectiveness of repairs.
 
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steve82

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I heard that another one of the problems with the Starship was the performance figures they derived from their sub-scaled demo aircraft did not scale up to the full-sized one. Part of it may have been weight but Burt Rutan's name is still mud over at Beech.
 
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davf

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Yikes! I hadn't heard that before. That seems like an awfully amateurish mistake for Rutan! Even so, the cruise speed figures didn't suffer too badly but the range sure did. Max cruise dropped from 352kts to 338kts. The added weight (20% added) also contributed to a drop in range from 2500nm to just under 1600nm. Even so, it still outperformed the King Air.<br /><br />They picked up a reputation as being maintenance hogs too, since Beech offered free maintenance on them. Guess what happened? The company contracted to do the maintenance went hog-wild on the aircraft since they had, in essence, a blank check from Beech. The only five still flying that Beech didn't get their hands on currently have maintenance requirements similar to the King Air B200.
 
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Smersh

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<font color="yellow">Actually, I was also thinking more about longevity and effectiveness of repairs.</font><br /><br />Yes, I guess we're into a whole new ball game here regarding skin repairs. <br /><br />Guess we should find out about that as soon as a 787 gets bumped by a catering truck for the first time ... <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>
 
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