From a drop of water....

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Atlan0001

It's always tough reversing, turning, that "inverse square law" end for end, inside-out and outside-in!

It's always tough reversing, turning, 'time' end for end, inside-out and outside-in!

For every action forward, there is always an equal, opposite, reaction rearward (backward)! And vice-versa!

For every closing (contraction, compaction, concentration, implosion) there is always an equal, opposite, opening (expansion, scattering, spreading out, explosion), somewhere around in something! And vice-versa!

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Atlan0001

It's a wonder sometimes how many can't put (+1) and (-1) together to make binary base2's '0' and/or '1' plus/minus (+/-) the Trojan.

The eternal superposition constant of "Infinite MULTIVERSE Universe (U)"....
equals
The eternal superposition constant point (T=1) of 'infinite density of Big Crunch', aka "quantum fluctuation"....
equals
The eternal superposition constant point (T=1) of infinite Abyss, Void, Vacuum, Aether, aka "quantum fluctuation"....
equals
The eternal superposition constant totality of all mass and energy (totals zero) ....
equals
The eternally collapsed cosmological (superposition) constant (/\) Planck (Big Bang) 'Mirror Horizon' (T=1) of an infinity of horizon universes (u) (horizon universes in entangling concurrent REALTIME NOW instant (t=0) // EMERGENT SPACE) ....
equals
The infinite 'Nothingness' and 'Nowhereland' that is the "['Nothing at all!'] that is inside/outside the finite local relativity of light's coordinate point past-future ((t=+1) (t=-1)) histories' SPACETIME of the finite 'observable universe' (u)" (that is inside/outside a quantum-discrete quanta of "Verse" (aka, meaning, "Turn," and/or, "Turning")).

Oh well.
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"From a drop of water, a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other...." 'Sherlock Holmes: A Study in Scarlet', by Arthur Canon Doyle.

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Atlan0001

Had to bring this over from elsewhere because it squares with posts from #625 . . . minimally:

The simplest, oldest, diagramming illustration of an 'Infinite MULTIVERSE Universe (U)' is still this one, G=1!

'There will never be the vectoring direction and magnitude of 'One World' without two . . . and/or "many" . . . worlds!
================
"I am 'matter' (+)! You are antimatter (-)!"
"No! I am matter (+)! You are antimatter (-)!"
"No way! I am matter (+/-)! You are antimatter (-/+)!"
"Get it through your own thick skull, I am matter (+/-)! You are antimatter (+/-)!"
"YOU get it through YOUR thick skull, I am matter (-/+)! You are antimatter (-/+)!"
Opposites attract? Likes repel? (G=1) (asymptote 0-g, and/or, 1-g (n-g)).
Then there is the Trojan, "Schrodinger's Cat" (asymptote: both entangling (unity (one)) and neither entangled (null unity (many)))!

Atlan0001

Ad #628 ("MULTIVERSE") from elsewhere (to include Heisenberg's "Uncertainty" and Schrodinger's "Cat"):

We each "carry our 'observable universe' with us" (-- Catastrophe). Thus, so does our local world, our local star system, our local galaxy, our local universe, in all individualities (all quantum-discrete quanta) at every vector level of local relativity (light's coordinate points past-future ((t=+1) (t=-1)) histories' SPACETIME), carry its "observable universe" (spaces, times, positions, velocities, masses, energies, directions, magnitudes, ...., what have you of 'Infinite MULTIVERSE Universe') with it.

And, just in case you didn't notice, it's what's at the exact center point of every hyper-spherical "observable universe" bubble.

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Atlan0001

Our only 'observable universe' was our local world.

Cat
Damnit, Cat! You're leaving me no 'space'! for argument!

You still may not be realizing it but you gave me a second way to see self-similar fractal zooms structure of universe (as countless many individually independent fractal zooms structures, bubbles, as well as Chaos Theory's stepped levels of structure. You made me realize it can be thought of either way and [un-rigidly] both ways at the same time. NOT only "observable universes (u)" but (quantum entangling / tunnel linked) universes (u), period.

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Catastrophe

Atlan0001

Differing approaches. Differing physics. Arriving at exactly the same self-similar fractal zooms structure of universe . . . most especially including the "Set and reset (strong force, Casimir force, effected) to the base of fundamental binary base2 alternative horizons of "smooth" (Planck heat) and "coarse grain chunky" (cold, also, at once, the universes' time reversal engine generator of "Planck heat").
----------------------
Klein bottle:
----------------------
Mobius strip:
----------------------
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Newton's third law of motion:

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Atlan0001

Ahem!

-----------------------------------

"Brevity may be the soul of wit but repetition is the heart of instruction." -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.

Catastrophe

"Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Atlan, yp #631. if you would like it expressed more concisely :
Until recently, mankind was limited to planet Earth. Therefore it would be mandatory (during such time) that our locus of observation (with limited variations around one's location on planet Earth's surface), or not far distant therefrom, that, we could use "our" to apply to any inhabitant of planet Earth.

With the advent of space travel this, of course, would have to be modified, for any observer distant from "Earth" (as suggested in the above paragraph) by defining any alternative location of said observer.

Cat

Atlan0001

Atlan0001

This gets kind of rough and messy for some (maybe), so try to bear with me (as I see it) if you are willing:

The universal grand total of mass and/or energy equals zero.

There is the matter universe (+) and always sharing the same space and time with it, the [joined-at-the-hip] "mirrored identical" twin anti-matter universe (-).

"Big 'G' (G=1 (its Planck unit)).

(('|') "mirror")
(m(e)=mass(energy) (positive (+)) | negative / anti (-)))
((+n)m | (-n)m) = '0'm(e) = (n)'g' ("little 'g'").
((+1)m | (-1)m) ='0'm(e) = (1)'g' ("little 'g'").

Thus, "zero-'g'" is a fairy-tale result constant alternative to an infinitely-incalculable "infinitesimal-'g'."
-------------------------------

"To be continued....maybe!" -- Atlan0001

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Catastrophe

Catastrophe

"Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Atlan, Of course I will try to bear with you, but, to be honest, I do find much of what you post unfamiliar, and difficult to understand. Do you any (reasonable amount) of literature I could bone up on (= study)?

Cat

Atlan0001

This gets kind of rough and messy for some (maybe), so try to bear with me (as I see it) if you are willing:

The universal grand total of mass and/or energy equals zero.

There is the matter universe (+) and always sharing the same space and time with it, the [joined-at-the-hip] "mirrored identical" twin anti-matter universe (-).

"Big 'G' (G=1 (its Planck unit)).

(('|') "mirror")
(m(e)=mass(energy) (positive (+)) | negative / anti (-)))
((+n)m | (-n)m) = '0'm(e) = (n)'g' ("little 'g'").
((+1)m | (-1)m) ='0'm(e) = (1)'g' ("little 'g'").

Thus, "zero-'g'" is a fairy-tale result constant alternative to an infinitely-incalculable "infinitesimal-'g'."
-------------------------------

"To be continued....maybe!" -- Atlan0001
Now, 'g' ("little 'g') means "gravity" always being RELATIVE (in vector's directions and magnitudes . . . in self-similar fractal zooms structure of universe (such as the asymptote -- yet inverse squaring -- breadth and depth of the 'Mandelbrot Set')), NOT ABSOLUTE / NEVER ABSOLUTE!

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Atlan0001

Atlan, Of course I will try to bear with you, but, to be honest, I do find much of what you post unfamiliar, and difficult to understand. Do you any (reasonable amount) of literature I could bone up on (= study)?

Cat
Sorry, Cat, I can't do what you ask. Along with 'history', it is based on forty years of reading, studying, and just thinking, regularly on physics and cosmology, plus seventy-plus years off and on interest since I was a young child. All of it is also based on my nature as a lifelong "intuitive visual mathematician." I do naturally, and in natural practice sharpening it, what Hawking said was the [bitterly] "difficult," I think in more dimensions of complexity and chaos than one or two ("****! How is you constantly jump into (manure) and come up smelling like a rose?!" -- *****) ("****! Why is it you work on staff here when you should be teaching here?!" -- *****).

Except in the necessary detail of my first career discipline (to keep it), I was never one for the formulaic of my interests or otherwise! I've apparently absorbed some kind in outline herein after forty years of simple interest, though, without trying.

So again, sorry, Cat, no can do (other than what I see in all the pointers and quotes throughout my posts as I go (including quoting you upon occasion), that is). It is just who and what I am and always have been (I see it, the picture, then try to work the detail of the picture out as much as I can (but only if am interested enough to do so . . . being known to be "too indolent" when not interested in detail -- again, particularly "formulaic detail" -- enough! I've discovered the 'pointers' to generally do that detailing well enough, mostly, for me)).

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Atlan0001

Once more: "Brevity is the soul of with but repetition is the heart of instruction."

It is still difficult to believe the standard physicist who has never done long range shooting at a moving target where you have to lead the target at ranges lengthening out in order to have any possibility of hitting it.

Planet A is 50-light years from Planet B. According to observer A on planet A the current year is 1050CE. Traveler A is preparing for a fast interstellar trip to planet B. What is his observable starting year relative to planet B . . . NOT his home planet A? 1050CE or 1000CE?

It is 1000CE and I've never read that it would be -50 years from Einstein, or Hawking, or any other of the physicists I've read or seen in videos in my life time. Their starting point has always been 1050CE, the planet A year point, and just coincidentally the unobserved dark universe planet B entangling concurrent REALTIME NOW (t=0) instant (1050CE). Thus, traveler A will deal in a point triangle of planet A point 1050CE, observed planet B point 1000CE, and dark universe planet B point 1050CE.

The traveler A, beginning from home planet A point 1050CE, is going to have to get from planet B point 1000CE (observed), to dark universe planet B point 1050CE plus the local (to the ship) clock-time . . . whether hours, days, weeks, months, or years past concurrent 1050CE times for both planets at the beginning of Traveler A's start from home.

If the voyage takes one week ship's time, that will be fifty years plus one week observed travel by a traveler who will observe himself to have aged one week. He will also observe a home world sun to do time reversal toward a distant Event Horizon of universe that will amount to fifty years worth of time reversal in light's coordinate point past histories' SPACETIME ("For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction")!

Which planet had to move lightening fast . . . and I mean LIGHTENING FAST . . . through the curvature of time to contract, shrink, the triangle in on itself and catch up to REALTIME NOW (t=0)? Light's coordinate point past histories' SPACETIME Planet B (observed)!

For the traveler's return trip, simply reverse directions. The rest holds to the same.

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Atlan0001

Once more:

Our own Solar Systemic planets have been observed to reverse course temporarily in their orbits as Earth passes, before reversing course again and resuming their normal direction of orbit. It's a SPACETIME optical illusion that would, and must, apply big time regarding SPACETIME travel and the SPACETIME travelers in the above #640.

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Atlan0001

By the way, down this road yet again! In the eternal circle, the eternal twist of the "Mobius Strip," of cold and heat absolutes on one side of the circle, and equilibrium in horizon on the other, the "absolute zero ('0') of cold" is the 'Mirror Event Horizon' constant engine instant spark of the absolute of the Planck (Big Bang) level of heat. Infinite density equals infinite Abyss (Void) (Vacuum), equals "Quantum Fluctuations" (aka "verses" (turns); aka "horizon universes (u)").

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Atlan0001

I know it is difficult to visualize and understand, but all outer-space is Flatland (infinitely) 2-dimensional mass-surface that is naturally set upon and can be artificially built upon in any number of ways, directions, and magnitudes!

1.) "0-point."
2.) "Superstring."
3.) "Sierpinski carpet."
4.) "Menger Sponge."

It's too bad so few see it as "Flatland Universe" surface, much less understand it or understand the potential to usefully custom manipulate it at large (warp SPACE (cutting curvatures), creations of soliton bubble waves, and so on) and small (facilitation and colonizing, and so on building to live upon or to work), as needed and wanted!

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Atlan0001

As usual, "brevity may be the soul of wit but repetition is the heart of instruction." -- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.

It constantly comes down to this point of realization. Due to Einstein's visionary trip to the speed of light and his discovery there of t=0; and Hawking's vision of a "Grand Central Station of Universe", with that very special "Clock" and its frozen constant of time on the clock, t=0, hanging over the exact 'center point' of the "Station", it becomes impossible NOT to realize where and when in what physic ('c'), the exact center point ('c') of the universe -- every universe (u) including the "Infinite MULTIVERSE Universe (U)" -- always is, was, and will ever be!

Verses (redundantly) turn (verse: turn; to turn; to re-turn....) on that exact center point, forever constantly 'orbiting' it, so to speak. Light's coordinate point past-future histories' ((t=+1) (t=-1)) SPACETIME always out of the entangling concurrent REALTIME NOW (t=0) instant ('c')! The innumerable discrete quanta of "observable horizon universe(s) (u)" always out of the "collapsed cosmological constant (/\) P/BB 'Mirror Event Horizon'" of the "Dark Universe (U) ('Infinite MULTIVERSE Universe (U)')."

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Atlan0001

I could not help but bring this over in whole . . . more spokes to a central hub ("From a drop of water...."):

The '0'-point portal singularity (ergo, gravity's state of "quantum entanglement" (displayed big time in the math and the illustrations of "Big 'G'")) dimension is the omni-dimensional, the open system (there is no "one world" without two or more worlds). The fourth dimension is [the close of the system] to a closed system in ("Mirror Event Horizon") "the one Ring (in 'reality', immeasurable : curve-circle shape (in quantum fluctuation : string vibration : "Mobius Strip")) to rule them all" (as J. R. Tolkien might have put it). So, again, don't get it backwards. Far, far, too many do who cannot, or will not, think omni-dimensionally (fundamental binary base2 '0' (null unity (Q(DQ))) and/or '1' (unity))!

Again! "0-point portal singularity" into the asymptote infinities (fractal zooms universe structure) of 'Mandelbrot Set' MULTIVERSE Universe!

And when we break out into the universe, if we break out into the universe, we will be going there! The new, raw, alien, harsh and forbidding frontier universe will breed a new Mankind (in the heat of the forge, forge the 'metal', the 'steel', in and of a new Mankind)!

Catastrophe

"Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Atlan,

You have great ability with words, and are clearly a very intelligent person, but I am not sure that I and others here have a clear understanding of your purpose.

May I ask you, please, to be kind enough to give us a very short summary of what you would like from us? You have clearly invested a great deal of time in this communication, for which we thank you.

Cat

Atlan0001

Atlan,

You have great ability with words, and are clearly a very intelligent person, but I am not sure that I and others here have a clear understanding of your purpose.

May I ask you, please, to be kind enough to give us a very short summary of what you would like from us? You have clearly invested a great deal of time in this communication, for which we thank you.

Cat
Really, Cat? I want nothing of you but to be forced to think and to force you (all) to think . . . as Hawking said, "in more than one or two dimensions of thought" . . . thus expanding the mind (-- American Frontier Essayist circa early 1770s CE: Michel Guillaume Jean "Hector St. John" de Crevecoeur (what he had to say to Europeans about the American frontier and its frontier expansions of the human mind . . . and, incidentally, about expanding frontiers in general causing such frontier expansions of the individual and mass human mind) --), no matter how hard it is to do, and no matter how much such expansionism hurts!

And, just by the way, If I live long enough, I'm going to get around to the idiocies of Civilizations I, II, and III. There are only three levels of Civilizations, and they are not I, II, and III! They are beginning state "Frontier", middle state "Static", and that meteor that burns brightest (burning itself out hottest and fastest) on its way down to ground, the third and last, closed systemic end state "Decline and Fall" into either return to beginning state opening, Frontier Renaissance, or to a final extinction, period!

Oops! I guess I lived long enough to briefly take temporary care of that matter.

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Atlan0001

A Ball of Concentrated Lightening?!:

My biggest problem with it is I don't have gravity any longer as a force but a cosmic vectoring of directions and magnitudes, a self-similarity of fractal zooms gravitational universe structure (emergent SPACE: Inclusive of hyperspace, warp space, wormhole tunneling JUMP SPACE....).

Unlike most interested students of physics and cosmology, I don't restrict the fundamental strong and weak interactions (forces) to the microcosm but see them having awesome potential representation as forces of the macrocosm as well as the microcosm. "Force" credit and blame (now) lazily assigned to gravity from over centuries is wrongly assigned, has been for centuries before the discovery of those two forces, the strong and weak, as I see these things. Electromagnetism isn't the only one that crosses the boundaries of microcosm and macrocosm.

Rather than a search down and in into the microcosm for gravity (a reach to a "force" that simply won't happen), the reach should be up and out into the macrocosm for the strong, the weak, and the combined electroweak forces. But especially, for reasons herein, the strong interaction.

Oh, well!
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"From a drop of water, a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other." -- 'Sherlock Holmes: A Study in Scarlet' -- by Arthur Canon Doyle.

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Catastrophe

"Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
Well, cosmology is my lifelong passion.

My belief is that the big bang theory is long dead (no pun intended).

The Moebius Strip concept makes much more sense.
This, together with the flatlander analogy, would mean that we are just short of one more dimension of comprehension.

At the moment, I cannot imagine any better solution, but, to be scientific about it, I am open to new evidence. But evidence means evidence. Not imaginary speculation, whatever the source.

Cat

Atlan0001

Well, cosmology is my lifelong passion.

My belief is that the big bang theory is long dead (no pun intended).

The Moebius Strip concept makes much more sense.
This, together with the flatlander analogy, would mean that we are just short of one more dimension of comprehension.

At the moment, I cannot imagine any better solution, but, to be scientific about it, I am open to new evidence. But evidence means evidence. Not imaginary speculation, whatever the source.

Cat
But, Cat, you seem to throw in the trash the most obvious scientific evidence of infinity's singularity of "Horizon" and all the infinities of 0-point and 1-d line "horizons" contained within that closed up to the immeasurable singularity of "Horizon."

The superposition 1-d line horizon of the Earth contains all the 2-d surface of the Earth within its 1-d line-circle of horizon. And the superposition 0-d point, observable universe "blue dot" relativity of Earth, contains all but the un-observable dark universe reality of its omni-dimensionality (thus the fact of two worlds . . . minimally two universes, SPACETIME's past (t=+1) and future (t=-1) histories . . . NOT counting the primal Trojan of REALTIME NOW (t=0) (eternal) instant from which all SPACETIME hologram holography springs). This is not speculation but scientific, mathematical, experienced "observable" and "realizable" fact.
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"Communication across the revolutionary divide is inevitably partial." -- Thomas S. Kuhn.

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