Gedanken Experiment

[TheShadow]

Gedanken Experiment<br /><br /><i>This is a repost of one of my very first threads here on Uplink, many years ago. Have fun, and try to stay within the stated restrictions and parameters.</i><br /><br />Let me state at the outset that I do not necessarily agree with all of the precepts of the Theory of Relativity. Intuitively I have always felt that there must be another answer but was unable to 'put my finger on it'…I do not have the resources to perform the physical testing that would be required to determine the answer, so I am left to deal with the problem using the tools I have at hand, my mind and Gedanken (Thought) Experiments. <br /><br />Remember, Gedanken experiments are how Einstein arrived at his famous conclusions. I am confident (arrogant) enough to think that I can actually figure out some things that no one else has (as far as I know). So let's ignore my arrogance and audacity for a moment and see where these Gedanken lead us….<br /><br />One thing that does seem obvious is that everything is relative. We can never determine a "fixed" point in space, so any measurement must be related to something else. This could be another object, several objects, or simply our starting point. This brings us to my first insight and the basis for most of my subsequent Gedanken.<br /><br />It has been stated that light cannot travel faster than (or slower than) 299,792,458 m/s, 186,300 miles/sec, 1.802,265,898 MF/mf (take your pick). Relative to what? Regardless of anything else, it would always be relative to its starting point. It has also been shown that light "slows down" when it encounters any substance. In fact, it does something more that slow down, it is converted to something else.<br /><br />As light enters a transparent substance, its 'information' is transferred, as a pattern, to the electrons of the molecules that make up the substance and the light itself ceases to exist. The pattern propagates through the electrons to the other side of the substance <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><font size="1" color="#808080">Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, the Shadow knows. </font></p> </div>

 

[cosmictalk]

Try to devise an experiment where this effect will not alter the results in such a way that the measured speed of light will always be 299,792,458 m/s. (or 1.802,265,898 MF/mf) <br /><br />Now, for the purposes of this experiment, please refrain from quoting outside sources and presenting contradictory theories. Stay within the parameters of the experiment and I promise I will show you a relevant, but unexpected insight into current accepted theory. <br /><br /><br /><font color="black"> What do you believe is current accepted theory? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /></font>

 

[TheShadow]

You are right, that was poorly worded. I will change it.<br /><br />Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say the currently most generally accepted theory, GR. GR would claim that light travels at 299,792,458 m/s relative to all objects, regardless of the relative velocities of those objects.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><font size="1" color="#808080">Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, the Shadow knows. </font></p> </div>

 

[ltwass]

Hi, first post here, if you don't mind I'll take a crack at it.<br /><br />Have 2 rocket ships, docked with each other and facing opposite directions. Each ship has an atomic clock that starts out synchronized. One ship has a laser, the other a light detecting instrument. The two ships undock, and move away from each other at identical accelerations. At a prearranged time, the laser ship fires at the detector ship. The detector ship records the arrival of the laser light, and can then calculate how long the light took to reach it. Since it knows when the laser was fired, and the relative velocity and distance of the laser ship, it can calculate the speed the light travelled.<br /><br />The only problem I can't resolve is if the clocks will stay synchronized by using the same accelerations.