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Gravitational force between Venus and Earth

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spaceman186000mps

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Questions about Venus and Earth properties...<br /><br /> Planet Venus and Earth have almost equal mass and volume.<br /> We can pretty much measure the gravitational force shared between our earth moon system on a ratio of six to one.<br /> <br />As Venus passes Earth on its inside orbit at closest opposition, Venus is approximately 104 times distance ( from earth ) than our moon is from Earth.<br /><br /> On a 1.00 to .97 percent mass ratio that Earth and Venus have, exactly what amount of gravitational force do the two planets exert on each other at opposition?<br /> Why does Venus uniquely have such a near perfect circular orbit around the sun ?<br />Why does Venus always present the same face toward Earth at closest opposition ?<br />Of course.. , then there's the obvious question of, <br /> Is Venus upside down or opposite in relation to the Earths north magnetic pole ?<br /> <br />Any thoughts on how much force the planets exert on each other ? <br /><br />Is it an attractive or repulsive force ? Or none at all ? <br />How can it be precisely measured? <br /> <br /> Would it be reasonable to postulate that Planet Venus ,(whatever magnetic attraction or repulsive effect it has upon Earth )<br /> Perhaps, Venus may even be responsible for the Earths apogee and perigee in our elliptical orbit? <br /><br /> Maybe even our four pivot axis tilt positions that causes seasons on Earth.<br /><br />As a planet orbiting in our solar system, Venus seems to be the slowest, stable point that exist except for its revolving star speed and Venus is the closest thing to going backwards or even close to standing still. Okay... lol that was a joke but my questions are not.<br /><br />Thought experiment. If it were possible, and I know it's not. But...<br /><br /> How would an atomic clock function on Venus? <br /> That is in relation to one on Earth. <br /> <br /> Also If it were possible ( and I know it's not )<br /> To put an electric generator on Venus, would it produce electricity as we <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">70 percent of novel proceeds </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.trafford.com/06-1593</font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff"> are donated to </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.caringbridge.org</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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spaceman186000mps

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vogon13

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Check out Toro. It's virtually a shared satellite of earth and Venus.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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lunatio_gordin

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Toro? you got a link? i'm interested in this asteroid.
 
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vogon13

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Toro was in a 13/5 resonance with Venus until 1850 then around 1900 it entered the 8/5 resonance with earth. It is expected to return to the Venutian (Venereal?) resonance in 2200.<br /><br />Computer studies project it may do this shuffle for a few million years before 'something happens'.<br /><br />Diameter is around 12 km. It is believed to be type S (stony).<br /><br />Info from Intro to Asteroids, Clifford Cunningham. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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lunatio_gordin

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uh, yeah. most of it. the stuff that i could understand XD
 
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majornature

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<font color="yellow"><b>Why does Venus uniquely have such a near perfect circular orbit around the sun ? </b></font><br /><br />You forgot to mention that Venus and Earth also have almost equal density.<br /><br />Don't qoute me on this but I think Venus has that near perfect orbit because of the sun's gravity pull. Look at Mercury, for instance, we can assume that Mercury as a "perfect" orbit by it being closest to the sun and the Sun's gravitation pull is acting strongly on Mercury. Planets closest or closer to the sun seem to have a "perfect" or a near perfect orbit. However, after passing Venus' orbital, from Earth to Pluto, the orbital can appear "near wobbly" or wobbly. Of course you know about Pluto's orbital and how perhaps become the eight planet every 228 years.<br /><br /><br /><font color="yellow"><b>On a 1.00 to .97 percent mass ratio that Earth and Venus have, exactly what amount of gravitational force do the two planets exert on each other at opposition?</b></font><br /><br />I think it depends on how close these two planets (Venus & Earth) orbit or it may be their magnetic field energies repulsing one another.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><b>How would an atomic clock function on Venus? <br />That is in relation to one on Earth. <br /><br />Also If it were possible ( and I know it's not ) <br />To put an electric generator on Venus, would it produce electricity as we know it here on Earth ? </b></font><br /> <br />The atomic will function just like Earth's but the problem is that Venus' atmosphere is not like our atmosphere so it probably wouldn't work.<br /><br />That electric generator will probably burn up before it reaches the surface on Venus.<br /><br />I hope this helps.... but if not, very interesting though.<br /><br /><b> True Knowledge Exists in Knowing That You Know NOTHING!!!!!</b> <br /><br /> <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>
 
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Saiph

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well, first off: The atomic clock and electric generator will work just fine.<br /><br />That is, if the 100 atm pressure of the venus's atmosphere, or the high temperatures don't destroy it. Otherwise, it'll work just fine.<br /><br />Second: Venus doesn't have much of a magnetic field...none has been detected to my knowledge.<br /><br />Third: Gravitational influence is minimal.<br /><br />Fourth: resonance was likely caused by what minimal gravitational influences there are, aided by whatever phenomena drastically altered Venus's rotation (likely to be a huge impact).<br /><br />Fifth: You want an odd planet? Look at Uranus. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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spaceman186000mps

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Hi !<br /><br />About time and and fast atomic clocks on Mountains<br /><br />Quoting here from the Everything Einstein book by Shana Priwer and Cynthia Phillips, Ph.D.<br />I highly recommend this read. <br /> dewy dec.. 530.092 Phi. Local libraries <br /><br />Begin Quote<br /><br />Time and Altitude<br /><br />Having already shown that time was no longer an invariant quantity in his theory of special relativity, Einstein extended his idea ( when coupled with the gravitational redshift ) to show that time passes at different rates at different altitudes. Remember that gravity decreases with altitude, due to the inverse square law. An object at the top of a mountain is farther from the center of Earth and thus experiences less of a gravitational force.<br /> Fast clocks on mountains <br />The most accurate clocks are atomic clocks, which are based on the oscillations given off by various atoms ( usually cesium ). But due to the gravitational redshift, the oscillations of atoms will vary with gravity- that is, their frequency will change depending on the value of the gravitational field they are in. Since higher altitudes have less gravity, the frequency of the atoms will change slightly. Therefore, time runs faster at higher altitudes.<br /><br />Due to the same effect that makes time run faster at higher altitudes, it would run more slowly in a large gravitational field. <br /> So.. Your life might be longer if you lived on the surface of a high-mass planet. You might no be very comfortable though. end quote.<br /><br />Please bare with me here in my thought experiment. <br /><br />These figures are approximate. <br /> Venus comes around closing in inside on opposition. Venus is approx. 67 million miles from sun.{26mm from earth)<br /> Earth is approx. 93 million miles from sun.<br />The two planets are approx. 26 million miles apart on the same plane.<br />That's approx. 139.5 light seconds or 2.33 light minutes apart.<br />Now Venus has always presented this exact same face towar <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">70 percent of novel proceeds </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.trafford.com/06-1593</font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff"> are donated to </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.caringbridge.org</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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Saiph

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welll....<br /><br />The clock on venus mountain would run slower than the one in the center of venus (less gravity there actually, as it all cancels out). It would run faster than a clock on venus's surface though.<br /><br />Same thing goes for earth mountain, earth surface, earth core clock relations.<br /><br />For comparative rates between earth and venus, I'd have to calculate the actual gravity felt by the clocks at their locations, and compare. Then you throw in the acceleration of the orbits (acceleration=gravity according to GR), the linear speed difference (SR) and the difference in gravity due to the sun's location....Then throw in the differing rotation rates of the planets (same deal as with orbits).... And you'll get an idea.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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spaceman186000mps

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Nicely said I agree<br /> Bare with me now.<br /> On Venus <br />Venus at opposition is approx. 67 million miles or 359.6 light seconds from sun.<br />Earth at opposition is 93 million miles or 499.2 light seconds from the sun. <br /><br />That means the two planets of near equal mass are approx. 139.6 light seconds apart. <br /><br /> Then there's our Moon around Earth in the equation that is one sixth the mass of Earth or 1/12th the total mass of Venus and Earth. <br /><br />The moon is approx. one quarter of a million miles above Earth.<br />Venus is approx. 26 million miles or 104 times the distance that the moon is from Earth.<br />Now we know the force the moon applies to earth at this distance.<br />Venus is six times more massive than our Moon and is 104 times the distance to Earth at this closest point of opposition.<br /> There is a force between Earth, Moon, and Venus applied at this point. <br /> Whether it is small or large it exist.<br /> <br />Is there a way to detect and measure Venus gravity waves in our ocean at this precise moment?<br /> <br />I know of no evidence that Venus was ever struck by any object massive enough to flip it over and cause it to stay stable. It has the most perfect circular orbit of any planet.<br /><br />And if it (is)?( for lack of better words), upside down and locked into orbit around the sun that keeps it that way for a reason,<br /> The force applied to it , whether from the sun or earth,moon should be equal to the force it takes to turn Venus those extra few earth days that are longer than it's year of 224 earth days.<br /> That is, The time it takes to turns it to that point of closest opposition which would be, approx. 18 earth days .<br />The sun rotates once every 18 to 25 days. Depending on latitude from equator. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">70 percent of novel proceeds </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.trafford.com/06-1593</font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff"> are donated to </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.caringbridge.org</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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Saiph

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you mean tidal forces from venus?<br /><br />Well...yes. But they won't be big.<br /><br />Mass is six times greater, so the tidal forces are six times greater for that alone.<br /><br />However, tidal forces are reduced by the distance CUBED. So thats 104^3 times weaker. So thats 1,000,000 times weaker. If the lunar tides are maybe a meter or so...that's 1 micrometer change. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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spaceman186000mps

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Ah! very interesting indeed... <br />Seems feasible that a micrometer water wave in a controlled experiment that can be repeated would surely be enough to measure attract or repel. <br />Even if it is a very slight force.<br /><br />Wouldn't a large still body of water detect better than a small body of water? <br />I mean the more massive the body of water is the more Venus waves would react to it and be measurable. <br /><br />What I'm saying is, that it would be hard to determine one micrometer in an ocean that is already churned by solar and lunar tides.<br /> If We built a mile long by three feet wide and three feet deep straight line tank of still water running east to west in direction with super sensitive sensors every twelve inches apart and tied into a computer monitor program to measure the minute water level change, Would that work? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">70 percent of novel proceeds </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.trafford.com/06-1593</font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff"> are donated to </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.caringbridge.org</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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pu_aero

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Time to break out your calculators everyone! <br /><br />Measuring a micrometer shift in the tides is all well and good if you've got billions of dollars and a decade or two to spend on this... but if you want a real answer you can use, all it takes is some algebra and a little help from our pal Isaac Newton. <br /><br />His formula for the gravitational force between two bodies is:<br /><br />F = G * m1 * m2 / r^2<br /><br />where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of each body, and r is the distance between them. <br /><br />All of these are values one can look up. I'm too tired at the moment. (Since its night-time, Venus is pulling me down and I don't want to fight it!)<br /><br />Btw, be sure to keep units consistent, i.e. all SI : m, kg, sec, etc., so the answer will make sense.
 
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vogon13

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Well, I got 8 and 1/3 slugs.<br /><br />Used my abacus.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>
 
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spaceman186000mps

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You're so right lol<br />I think I'll extend my light stick up to a second and a half or so and prop it up against the moon and think dream on it some more. <br /> See ya monyana. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">70 percent of novel proceeds </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.trafford.com/06-1593</font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff"> are donated to </font></strong><strong><font size="2" color="#3366ff">www.caringbridge.org</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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lunatio_gordin

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Earth 5.98x1024 kg<br />Venus 4.87 x 1024 kg<br />26 million miles apart:<br />26000000 mile = 41,842,944 kilometer<br />The value of G in this equation is approximately equal to 6.67 x 10^-11 newton meters squared per kilogram squared (N x m^2 x kg^-2).
 
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Saiph

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do you really think that would be still? on the micrometer level? <br /><br />Detecting the tidal forces of venus is...completely insignificant and irrelevant at that level.<br /><br />heck, even the straight gravitational attraction isn't much to look at either. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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yevaud

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Barely a wobble, yeah. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>
 
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nexium

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The 104 ratio is about right. The greater distance reduces the gravitational attraction by 104 squared (cubed = 1.2 million if tide and attraction are simular) = 11,000 times. Venus has about 20 times (50 times?) the mass of Earth's moon; so 11,0000 divide by 20 = 541 time more attraction by the moon than the attraction of Venus. The attraction is much less when Venus is not close to Earth. The magnetic attraction/repulsion is even less significant, but not zero.<br />The slow turming on it's axis should not be thought to be stability. The orbital speed of Venus is second only to Mercury.<br />An atomic clock and electric generator would behave the same as on Earth plus or minus parts per billion, if you can keep them cool.<br /> Venus does not significantly "power the momentum of Earth in it's orbit"<br />The center of mass for the solar system is always below the surface of the sun.<br /> I don't think we have determined if the planets are moving closer or farther from the sun, so the change is likely very small.<br /> Venus likely has a negligible effect on Jupiter and the other gas giant planets. Neil
 
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tempel1

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Dear friends <br />Go here please:<br />http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/press-release-details.cfm?newsID=117 <br />” The spacecraft's VELOCITY RELATIVE TO THE SUN is at about 26 kilometers per second (about 59,250 miles per hour). Cassini is now more than 9 million kilometers (almost 6 million miles) from Earth”. <br /><br />Since our probe is launched from the earth, it has already a velocity of 65,000 miles per hour (earth's velocity). <br /><br />Why have NASA engineers steered Cassini on this trajectory? <br /> http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=h_cassini_trajectory_02.gif&cap=The <br /><br />Instead of increasing Cassini's velocity they have slowed down it at 59,250 miles per hour. <br /><br />NASA engineers think the earth is the center of our solar system and don't consider earth's velocity. <br /><br />In this wrong way Cassini has travelled for 2 200 000 000 miles to meet Saturn. <br /><br />Cassini would have been able to fly along a straight line travelling for less than 1 000 000 000 miles. <br /><br />65,000 miles per hour (earth velocity) + 36,000 miles per hour (spacecraft's velocity) = 101,000 miles per hour <br /><br />1 000 000 000 miles : 365 days : 24 hours : 101,000 miles per hour = 1.13 years <br /><br />If NASA engineers considered the earth's velocity, Cassini could meet Saturn in one year! <br />
 
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iron_sun_254

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<font color="yellow">Then there's our Moon around Earth in the equation that is one sixth the mass of Earth or 1/12th the total mass of Venus and Earth.<br /></font><br /><br />Actually the Moon's mass is only about 1.23% that of Earth's<br /><br />http://www.solarviews.com/eng/moon.htm
 
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