Hard SF TV show about colonization of solarsystem?

kelvin_zero · Mar 12, 2007

How could a Hard SF television series about a colonized solar system work? With Nasa looking for reasons to justify returning to the moon to the public, this could be the perfect time. (Note: found a similar link "Realistic Tech Sci-Fi TV Show" about half a year old.. not sure how to link to it) The draw would be to only ever include very likely near future technology, carefully vetted for scientific plausibility. Something you could watch and feel confident that everything in it is a future we can almost touch. No interstellar travel, warp drive, antigravity or teleportation, but we have colonies on every moon and decent sized rock, and trade between all of them. I dont think the standard starfaring Science fiction episodic model works. You can't keep discovering new civilisations whose ancient legal system revolves around trial by combat or discovering totally new technology where team members swap bodies and hilarity ensues... Currently I am leaning towards a 'cowboy/western'approach (although not literally, as in FIREFLY) with many independent 'towns' mainly interested in survival and having to fend for themselves from various bullies, belters substituting for prospectors, megacorps substituting for railroad companies.. Another possiblilty is the age of galleons, were voyages typically takes months.. Any inspirations for a near future colonisation-heavy scenario that could churn out an arbitrary number of episode plotlines? Who would the characters be? What sorts of plots could you have within an episode and across an entire season?

qso1 · Mar 12, 2007

First off, welcome to SDC. I once wanted to see all the planets explored by humans but inevitably as I got older, I could see that with the very technology you mentioned, this would not be practical and in some cases maybe not even possible. Its also difficult to come up with fresh material. An example being, the first town gets set up on Ganymede...11 episodes later, the first town set up on anymoon starts to get as repetitive as the episodic models you mentioned. You may want to focus on the most interesting planets and moons. Granted, to most of us all of them are interesting but some are more so than others. Take Io for instance, thats an interesting moon. Whereas if you had three episodes dealing with rocky moons that are similar. May as well just do one. Some things you can do, especially if you have astronomy software...it might be interesting to show how one moon like Mimas, would look on a day to day basis...seeing Saturn dominating its otherwise black and starry sky. Or how the working environment is on Titan. There are lots of ways to craft stories, even a series. Guess it ultimately depends on the storytelling skill of the writer. I'm average at best so someone else may well be able to do with this concept what I was unable to do. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

kelvin_zero · Mar 12, 2007

Hi! thanks for your reply! Im actually quite enthusiastic about the future. Up till now it has always been the scale of these projects which has stopped us. We may be about to reach a tipping point where notions of scale go out the airlock. The key is a robot industry on the moon sufficiently advanced to build more robots. There a bunches of problems to overcome like learning to smelt without water etc, and maybe for a while certain parts like computer chips will need to be sent like vitamin supliments from earth, and for now the robots will need to be remotely controlled, but think of the result! An exponentially increasing industry with no further significant investment! Suppose a robot factory could duplicate all its own parts in one year. that would imply a thousandfold increase every decade. Suppose you only get a tenfold increase every decade, that is still a thousandfold increase every 30 years, (a millionfold in 60). Also, the technology to achieve this can be practiced on earth by computer geeks, car manufacturers and geologists, not rocket scientists. Anyone can come up with a new design and the winning designs can be uploaded to the moon via the internet. People are always asking why should we colonize the moon, why should we build a space habitat or visit mars. With an exponentially growing and free industry, these questions all become 'why not?' <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

kelvin_zero · Mar 12, 2007

Here is an ideas dump. Don't give me your critique.. just better ideas <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <li> Some catastrophe hits earth, and the colonies suddenly find themselves struggling to survive.<li> The jovian moons decide to become a separate nation, but a highly populated inner solar system needs its resources and war ensues. A family of belters is split up by the conflict and end up following the action in different story threads.<li> Battle against some mysterious foe, along the lines of the 'roughnecks' animated starship troopers, but the enermy could be evolving robots somewhat like in the matrix (problem with many of these ideas is that the hard SF has become mere window dressing) <li>) convert something like 'bonanza' directly to a space setting. I can barely remember what that series was like, but clearly it worked. I think the action mainly revolved around strangers turning out to be bandits, corrupt officials, love interests passing though. Perhaps the colonies location could put them on the equivalent of a train route.<li> "firefly" or cowboy-bebop tale revolving around a small crew. After all the solar system could have hundreds of 'worlds' if you define anything larger than 25k as a world. Storylines revolve around making ends meet.</li></li></li></li></li>

qso1 · Mar 12, 2007

I'm not much for criticizing others peoples stuff. Its not like I'm any authority on writing. I like all the ideas you have here so far and its actually good to brainstorm as many as possible to root out the one that works best for you. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

kelvin_zero · Mar 12, 2007

Thanks! Hey look! an episode guide to Bonanza! http://bonanza1.com/guide/ I dont know if i have ever watched that, but westerns definitely could be a good model for a future drama.<li>The land is the main obstacle<li>You have to make your own law, to some extent.<li>Belters could be like prospectors, looking for the lucky strike.<li>Megacorporations could be like railroad companies. Interestingly, A belter might require better science than any habitat dweller. Space science and biology might actually be considered a sign of low social standing by a city dweller, like knowing how to help a cow birth.. Belter opinions of city dwellers could be similarly low. The age of galleons and seavoyages of several months also could apply. The key to success might be to combine several genre/sources convincingly, so far I have:<li>western,<li>age of sail,<li>visions of space habitation from the last 3 decades.<li>The feel of the actual moon missions</li></li></li></li></li></li></li></li>

Aetius · Mar 12, 2007

I also enjoy seeing sci-fi stories set in our own solar system. I think it would be cool to see different colonies portrayed, and how they adapt to local conditions. A poster here (I think Rogers_Buck) pointed out that a colony which exports Platinum Group Metals (PGMs) to Earth would need to set up shop on two separate asteroids: A type-M asteroid to provide the metal ore, and type-C asteroid to provide the necessities of life for the inhabitants. Preferably these are in a binary system, and not in different heliocentric orbits. You can imagine the sorts of social conflicts that might arise after a few generations, between people who need each other, but literally live in different worlds. Another idea, which I read about in a book called Islands In The Sky, revolves around a tribal society that wanders the Kuiper Belt. Each habitat ship of the tribe resembles a miniature Bernal Sphere, and would only house 20-25 people. The tribe would have approximately 400-500 members divided amongst 20 ships, and mines the vast riches of the Kuiper Belt for its sustenance. I imagine the Kuiper folk as very clannish and austere. They would need to conserve fuel, energy, and hardware usage during the long journey between the small KBOs with miniscule gravity wells. Do they spend most of their lives on the ship they marry into? Are the marriages arranged? Are there different tribes, with utterly different cultures, and do conflicts ever arise between them? I think they might, since fringe religious groups and political radicals from elsewhere might see the Kuiper Belt as a haven from persecution. P.S. I edited for poor grammar.

kelvin_zero · Mar 12, 2007

The Kupier belt could be a good location for a mysterious adversary. Even in a highly populated solar system with very good sensors one might have no idea what sort of societies were developing out there, probably just emissions that gave clues to industrial levels and perhaps they could be masked. The social selection that drove people there is also a good point. Marriage is an interesting issue. People expect marriage related plots in period dramas. I wonder what an audience would want to see in a series like this?

vogon13 · Mar 12, 2007

Have the solar system be semi-segregated. Posit an LDS colony on an asteroid, put some Shia and Sunni's on co-orbiting Trojan moons. Use your imagination, come up with some unusual ways to divy up people. How about a colony of left handed folks? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

yevaud · Mar 12, 2007

I've felt that such a series would work, if the "amazing technology" was placed firmly into the background, where it should be. It's amazing to us, but not the denizens of such a future history. To them, it's background noise, like a lightswitch or tv remote is to us. So perhaps many stories could be about people and events, not the gee-whiz-bang tech. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Differential Diagnosis: "I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are." </div>

SpeedFreek · Mar 12, 2007

To make a good, interesting, compelling TV series like this you would need: Rivals. Good guys and bad guys! Two (or more) different factions competing, i.e. goverment owned (public) groups versus corporate (private) groups. (I'm not saying who are the good guys here!) Who makes the laws on newly settled planets or moons or space-habitats? Plot twists and turns. Relations within groups, between different groups, politics, romance, overcoming adversity, the struggle to survive. Basically human interest set against a technological background. And I agree it would be good if we could "keep it real" on the technology front. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> _______________________________________________ SpeedFreek </div>

silylene old · Mar 13, 2007

How about a detective crime drama, set in the future in which Mars, some moons and asteroids have been settled? This will always keep the plot fresh. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

kelvin_zero · Mar 13, 2007

detective, or sheriff.. One problem is that a planet-hopping detective might not work (unless say you stuck to the moons of jupiter).. Im thinking that earth to jupiter would still take at least some weeks. However, it could be a mix of people on the spot and experts working with reconstructed data that takes an hour to cross space to its destination. There are a bunch of ideas above. I think I will try and come up with a list of formulaic plots (to prove there is a formula rather than to stun with originality <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

JonClarke · Mar 13, 2007

Good guys/bad guys, cops/sheriffs are awfully stereotypical. the last thing we want is some western in space. Let's be more original people! How about a story about a crisis management team that each week - or over a series of weeks, deals with different problems in space settlements and space travel. They could be related to life support, space medicine, safety, terraforming, astrobiology, spacw weather. The enemy is not humans, but the challenges of living and working in a hostile environment. Done right, with the right actors, there could be enough eye candy and intellectual to keep everybod happy. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

yevaud · Mar 13, 2007

Very true. Remember, these wouldn't be two day, warp-speed trips to faraway places. This would be more like trips out to the frontier, where the government, private corporations, criminals, or your peers might do you in, not to mention the environment itself. The law is thin on the ground, and you're a long way from Earth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Differential Diagnosis: "I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are." </div>

docm · Mar 14, 2007

Already been made: "Outland", starring Sean Connery. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Mar 14, 2007

Given orbital mechanics and the reality of life support, I suggest that criminal behaviour of the wild west or spanish main model are unlikely in the extreme. Spacecraft will be few and far between, fly along fairly narrowly defined orbits, in windows. They require highly ventralised industries to produce them and will be vulnerable to extremely simple counter measures. People will consist of carefully selected, isolated communities in which anything other than high standards of behaviour will lead to the deaths of everyone. Persistant trouble makers will likely suffer summary justice. There will be crime, but it be quite different to what is nortmally imagined. Now that in itself would be an inrteresting theme. What are the likely crimes in a space community? On earth small, isolated communities in a hostile envirtonment generally have very low crime rates and high standards of generosity and hospitality to those who are in need. I suspect space settlements will reflect that, of neccessity. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

kelvin_zero · Mar 14, 2007

The literal space western series has been done with firefly anyway. Still, some aspects do apply, for example a small community having to create its own justice has a western feel, It could also be compared to morality that evolves among people that live in very harsh climates I suppose. The isolation can also make atrocities easier. Habitats might find themselves in competition and habitats can also be quite fragile. A lot depends on where you draw the line for hard SF, and of course where in future history you chose to set it. One possiblity could be the time when the first fusion rocket is created, and has the mission to physically tour the solar system. What a tour discovers could be different from how habitats portray themselves in broadcasts, if they choose to broadcast at all. Some choices can be made for drama reasons while staying within hard SF. One way or another I'd like to see lots of different recognisable solar system scenery and some interaction with strangers.

JonClarke · Mar 15, 2007

That would work for me. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

kelvin_zero · Mar 15, 2007

A mini series works very well and probably already exist in novel form, for example Red Mars, Green mars, Blue mars, which used life extension to allow key characters to survive the entire history. This is actually the reason I have been trying to imagine how a non-mini series would work! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> A miniseries might be a more sensible goal though. I would certainly buy it. Just a note that Im not totally concerned with the most probable future, rather a hard-sf-plausible future that would be good escapist fun and could run for several seasons, enjoyed by the same people who enjoyed Startrek and babylon 5.

brellis · Mar 15, 2007

Welcome to SDC <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> A while back, I started a thread about Reason vs. Faith in which I synopsized an idea I had for what at one point was going to be a Science Fiction Musical -- you know, Love Songs on the Spaceship Titanic at Armageddon <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Unfortunately, I don't like Bruce Willis' singing, it's much too gritty for my taste. And the duets we tried with him and Leo -- bad idea! <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Kidding aside, a great thing about Sic-Fi is you can move a human story into a new context of your choosing. The more familiar elements you can appropriate, the more creative and original it will seem. <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /> You can take a concept like '24', spread the action around the solar system, fuse it with some of the characteristics of that 2001: A Space Odyssey mod lifestyle, and you're off to the races. We're long overdue for a return to those smooth furniture designs they had on Kubrick's spaceships. <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> Cast Brad Pitt in the Kiefer Sutherland role; he'll make the thing look clever, even if it kind of sucks. He's worth the $15 Mil per episode. Be sure to tell him he's not actually going to jet around the Solar System -- he might get his hopes up for a thing being shot a Billion Km away, what with all the international baby racket going on in his house. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Once again, kidding aside, I think '24' has done something cool because it deals with time in a different way. So would a Hard Sci-Fi TV Series, perhaps in the opposite direction. Jupiter takes 12 years to get around its orbit, so in 24 years you'd have good windows for a there- <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better. </div>

hansolo0 · Mar 16, 2007

Kelvin , I like your ideas and have had similar ones myself. Have you ever watched Starhunter? Not the best sci-fi, not the worst either, but is more or less your ideas of sci-fi within the solar system.

a_lost_packet_ · Mar 16, 2007

Kelvin_Zero - How could a Hard SF television series about a colonized solar system work? Go to the video store and rent the TV miniseries "The Martian Chronicles." While we know that some things in that series are implausible at least, it presented an interesting frontier-like atmosphere. Next, rent "2001 - A Space Odyssey" and watch that. The seemless integration of technology with plot is pretty fascinating. Next, rent "Silent Running" to get a feel for how isolated a character can feel yet still maintain their humanity. After that, rent "Aliens" purely for its perspective on mega-corps and space exploration and exploitation. The rest of the "Alien" series has interesting twists on mega-corps, prisons and the military. Make sure to get a few pertinent "Outer Limits" episodes to blend things together. Watch a few runs of "Earth 2" to learn what not to do with a SF series. "SeaQuest DSV" may have some interest purely for its political backstory. "Babylon 5" (One of my favorites) has some really interesting dynamics revolving around an Alamo in space or, more appropriately, an outerspace version of "Love Boat" with guns, politics, really ticked off aliens and very meaty and involved backstory. What sorts of plots could you have within an episode and across an entire season? Look at "Babylon 5" then watch "Love Boat." See the similarities? Of course, Bab5 has a very rich backstory that ties it all together while Love Boat didn't have much of a backstory at all. But, with Love Boat, the audience for heavy backstory was taken up by gems like "Dallas" (IIRC) so they didn't compete with that. Bab5 successfully combined heavy backstory, strong characters and purely episodic plotlines together into a successful series. Most of the time, somewhere in each episode, there were tie-ins with portions of the backstory and the overall theme to <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

bdewoody · Mar 16, 2007

Nobody has mentioned "Space 1999" yet. It was pretty good until they had the moon break away from earth and go bouncing through the galaxy. I think it would be hard to make a series about colonizing the solar system and keep it interesting while basically realistic. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Bob DeWoody </div>

qso1 · Mar 16, 2007

Yet they have some of the most uninteresting stuff on TV in programs called "Reality shows", that I have ever seen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

Hard SF TV show about colonization of solarsystem?

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