Hard to get to mars?

[ehs40]

what is it about mars that causes probes to fail during orbital insertion?

 

[lbiderman]

Yeah, the mishap with the Climate Observer was a big time failure. I don´t quite understand why everybody uses metric system now. Ok ok, I know, not the subject, but I just wanted to say it! =)

 

[baktothemoon]

"I don´t quite understand why everybody uses metric system now."<br /><br />It is way faster and simplier than what we use. I used it for physical science, all the equations for velocity, acceleration, force, and energy were made simplier by the fact that the units are easy to convert from one to another, such as a Newton is a kilogram times a meter per second. All you do is multiply two units that are factors of 100, move the decimal, and write the correct unit. We may not like it here in the U.S. but for just science it is very fast and easy to use.<br /><br />"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy

 

[dragon04]

Generally speaking, most of us don't understand just how difficult it truly is to put any vehicle (manned or unmanned) in orbit of, or on the surface of another planet or moon.<br /><br />Every time we get one right, it amazes me. And not because I have little faith on those who make it happen. I'm amazed because of the sheer amount of things that could go wrong. One of a myriad of tiny problems can lead to catastophic failure. Even if the vehicle performs perfectly.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[kdavis007]

Won't be as hard to get to Mars when we send humans to Mars...

 

[llivinglarge]

Sending an object on a collision course is easy...

 

[ehs40]

what is the current success rate with MRO making it to mars?

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">what is it about mars that causes probes to fail during orbital insertion?</font>/i><br /><br />To the other's comments I would add the relative uniqueness of each vehicle.<br /><br />If, after getting a vehicle in orbit successfully, every subsequent vehicle was the same, your statistics would probably improve. However, as each new spacecraft is relatively unique, there are a lot of new things that can fail.</i>

 

[willpittenger]

Yeah, the Russians tried to be the first to hit the Moon with a probe. They missed and put their probe into Solar orbit. They still got to claim their first (as though that is what they wanted all along), but they still missed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Counting the Mariner 9, Vikings, and Russians please! Not sure if flybys like Mariner 4 should be included. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Actually, far harder. A manned vehicle would dwarf even a sample return vehicle at launch and when leaving LEO. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[kdavis007]

So...

 

[oregonload]

When I worked on the Apollo CSM, one of the big problems was O2 leakage. We had to start off with alot more O2 than we needed just to have enough to use when we need it. A trip to Mars will impractable unless O2 leakage is fixed. True, the Apollo used liquid O2 and that was the beginning of the probleem. I was wondering id there has been any development of a storage system where the oxygen was in a chemical bond until needed. No leakage! Any ideas?

 

[nacnud]

Water and a nuke power supply?

 

[llivinglarge]

What's the easiest planetary object (other than the moon) to send a probe to?

 

[oregonload]

My thought is along the line of a CO2 converter and O2 storage combined. One (BAD) example would be use mercury to strip the oxygen from CO2. Then heat the oxide to release O2, as needed.. It could be used over and over. However, the toxic possibilities would rule mecury out.

 

[mlorrey]

A Near Earth Asteroid, and Venus. Getting to Venus, or any other point requires little Delta-v besides what you need to get to the Earth-Lunar Lagrange 1 point. At that point, you can get on the Interplanetary Superhighway (though I prefer to call it the Super Slow-way) and follow a purely ballistic path other than course corrections.

 

[JonClarke]

"Yeah, the Russians tried to be the first to hit the Moon with a probe. They missed and put their probe into Solar orbit. They still got to claim their first (as though that is what they wanted all along), but they still missed."<br /><br />This implies that they were not interested in anything other than a "first". It ignores that fact that the probe, Luna-1 carried 5 different instruments and yielded a wealth of data on the earth, the moon, and the solar enmvironment. Luna-2, a repeat mission, did succeed in hitting the Moon a short time later. It was a first as well.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

"what is the current success rate with MRO making it to "<br />mars?"<br /><br />15 attempts at Mars orbit insertion. 11 successful (Mariner 9, Mars 2, 3, 5, Viking 1 & 2, Phobos 2, MGS, MOd, MEx, and MRO). 4 failed (Mars 4, MOb, MCO, and Nozomi). Of the failures 3 were hardware and 1 (MCO) software) related.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The current idea is to live with the leakage by a combination as reserves and ISRU. People use less than 1 kg of O2 per day, even with a 10% margin this is not a major amount. Remember that a Mars mission will be much larger than Apollo.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

In terms of dV, Deimos, I believe.<br /><br />Lunar surface return 8.3 km/s (assuming atmospheric braking on return)<br /><br />Mars surface return 10.2 km/s (assuming atmospheric braking at Mars and on return)<br /><br />Deimos 7.3 km/s (assuming atmospheric braking on return)<br /><br />Deimos 6.0 km/s (assuming atmospheric braking at Mars and on return)<br /><br />Jon<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>