Heavy SDLV Questions

[soccerguy789]

I have been looking at the new heavy SDLV as an interesting way of making better space stations. one thing I want to know is whether the whole lower tank of the vehicle can atain LEO. If it can do that, it is likely we could build a big skylab like station, and leave it on top of the rocket once it hits orbit,. the lower decks would be filled with components for converting at least one of the chambers in the ET into habitable volume. If you give them all airlocks between each other, you could drain them, pressurize them, and then just move the small peices down into the tanks for assembly. I have trouble finding an easier way of getting that much habitable volume into orbit. What do you think?

 

[najab]

><i>one thing I want to know is whether the whole lower tank of the vehicle can atain LEO.</i><p>Nope.</p>

 

[space_dreamer]

Get the new 125ton rocket to lift huge Bigelow inflatable space modules!<br /><br />Skylab was only 75 tons, this can be 125 tons + it inflates!<br /><br />Imagine what floating in an inflatable module twice as wide as the STS fuel tank station designs of space inland Group!<br /><br />Having a real heavy lift rocket opens up so more possibility in space flight! <br /> <br />

 

[jammers]

Would it not be able to achieve orbit if the payload were reduced?

 

[nacnud]

Put fabric walls in then catch the gloop <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[najab]

If the payload were reduced the vehicle would likely collapse due to the extremely high acceleration.

 

[mikeemmert]

We lost the Columbia because they wanted to use the external tank as a space station. This meant abandoning the insulation that was supposed to line the inside of the tank, which was some kind of fiber/foil, I think. This would have absorbed some fuel and created explosive gases inside the tank. Anyway they went to foam, which as is now famously known, broke off in chunks, one of which destroyed Columbia.<br /><br />Foam is a bad idea. They need to drag out those old blueprints for the old insulation and try it out, if it's still being made.

 

[darkenfast]

" We lost the Columbia because they wanted to use the external tank as a space station."<br /><br />Where did you hear this?<br /><br />

 

[najab]

><i>This meant abandoning the insulation that was supposed to line the inside of the tank, which was some kind of fiber/foil, I think.</i><p>Check up on that, I can't see them putting anything inside the tank which had the potential to come loose - you think loose foam is a problem? A chunk of frozen fiber or foil getting into a SSME or suddenly blocking a propellant line at 109% thrust is my idea of a <b>really</b> bad day.</p>

 

[nyarlathotep]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I wasnt born until a decade and a half after the last Apollo, but I believe they glued about 4000 individually shaped fibreglass tiles to the inside of the tank by hand.<br /><br />It's little wonder that the infernal machines cost so much.

 

[dobbins]

That is incorrect. Here's a site with photos of the SIVB fuel tanks under construction.<br />http://cloudster.com/RealHardware/SIVBStage/S4B/Components2.htm<br /><br />

 

[najab]

Looking at the pictures posted by Dobbins, it doesn't look like that insulation was internal to the tank, but was a rigid structure that actually formed the inner wall of the tank - not a fiber or foil as suggested in the original post.

 

[najab]

<font color="orange">Correct me if I'm wrong, as I wasnt born until a decade and a half after the last Apollo, but I believe they glued about 4000 individually shaped fibreglass tiles to the inside of the tank by hand.</font><br /><br /><font color="yellow">That is incorrect.</font><br /><br />Actually...

 

[mattblack]

Wasn't it derived from some cork substance? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>

 

[dobbins]

The insulation didn't depend on glue to hold it in place, it used that grid wok that is shown in other pictures.<br /><br />There is also one other difference between the SIVB and the Shuttle. The only purpose of the insulation in the Saturn Rockets was to keep the fuel from boiling away. Saturns shed ice on lift off. In the Shuttle the foam has prevent ice from forming on the outside of the tanks that would damage the side mounted orbiter.<br /><br />

 

[publiusr]

I look forward to HLLV