Helium Filled Floating Launch Platform

[johnfullerroot]

Has anyone considered the possibility of having a high atmosphere floating space platform for launching rockets into space? The platform would be a giant helium filled balloon with a flat surface. It could be as large as is required. It could be powered by solar panels across its surface.<br /><br />Or what about using a combination of a space lift and a platform? Have the platform at say 30km and then a lift in orbit? How feasible is this? I am sure there is something I haven’t considered?<br /><br />The lift would have less distance to extend. We would be saving more than 30km of cable.<br /><br />Also what is gravity like at that height? Surely at 30km the earth’s gravitational pull is largely reduced. The extremely thin atmosphere at that altitude would also help reduce friction for rockets. Also re-entry is not always necessary. When it is necessary then a shuttle should be used that returns to earth and not to the platform. Also a platform like that would probably prove useful for a large variety of experiments within many different scientific fields. Also many people would pay money to experience a few days on the platform.<br /><br />From my perspective a platform would be a step closer to space. It could also be a great spot to have a telescope.<br />

 

[mithridates]

Hi, ever seen this company's site before?<br /><br />http://www.jpaerospace.com<br /><br />Their goal is to deliver payloads to orbit through a two-step system: a smaller (but still huge) airship up to a 'dark sky station' where a much larger airship is docked that takes it the rest of the way to orbit, with an ion engine as well if I remember correctly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[johnfullerroot]

Thats great, thanks for the link. It would be good to be able to support these guys with ideas, designs and funds.

 

[h2ouniverse]

ATO is a brilliant concept!

 

[johnfullerroot]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>ATO is a brilliant concept! <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Yes, however how will the 3rd stage airship reach orbit with just an ion propulsion engine. Is that really sufficient? I have no doubt about the DSS and the 1st stage airship reaching 140,000 feet but getting to orbit from there seems more difficult. Remember the airship is buoyant on top of the extremely thin atmosphere. Once that buoyancy is gone then doesn’t the weight of the airship come fully into play and mean that the propulsion will have to exceed the mass? Unless, by the time all buoyancy has gone, the airship (or now spaceship rather) is sufficiently distant that the earths gravitational pull has significantly reduced? <br /><br />EDIT: (11:37 27/11/2007) I have now learned that at 400km the earths gravity is roughly 90% of its suface strength. That means the propulsion required would be too great to lift a heavy hellium filled ship?

 

[MannyPim]

The Airship to Orbit desing depends on a gradual transfer of lift from buoyancy to a combination of aerodynamic lift plus velocity.<br /><br />In other words, the idea is that in the lower, denser parts of the atmosphere all of the lift will be provided by buoyancy. The ship will climb under buoyance until it can climb no more (I'm not sure how hight that might be - perhaps 100 Km or so, it will then begin accelerating forward and, because of its airfoil shape it will generate lift as it moves through the thin atmosphere. As it generates lift, it will climb higher, into still less dense air, which will in turn allow it to gain more speed and climb higher.... and so on...<br /><br />As it reaches the very upper layers of the atmosphere it should be going fast enough as to almost maintain itlsef in a low earth orbit, with an added compnent of lift force still keeping it up....<br /><br />The questions that this scenario raises are:<br /><br />1. Can we be sure that the lift to drag ratio will always be large enough for the available engine power ?<br /><br />2. When the ship begins to reach significant mach speeds (in a thin atmosphere) will it be possible to manage the thermal stresses on the airship?<br /><br />3. Is it possible to build such a large airfoil which can still perform satisfactorily at speeds ranging from let's say 100 Km / hr to thousands of Km/hr ? <br /><br /><br />My hope is that the answers to all these questions will turn out to be YES.<br />I also love the ATO concept.<br />If we can make it work it is one of the promising paths to the holy grail of space exploration and settlement: Cheap and reliable access to LEO. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>The only way to know what is possible is to attempt the impossible.</em></font> </div>

 

[nimbus]

Has the puncture scenario been so thoroughly adressed it doesn't bear mentioning anymore? I don't know if it's too naive an idea, but isn't such an eventuality a lot more likely than catastrophic lightning strikes on aircraft today? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[johnfullerroot]

Thanks MannyPim<br /><br />Thats the kind of possitive answer I was hoping for. You mention the 3 main questions this approach raises. How much of this has been tested so far? The ATO project says it will be completed in 7 years but that seems optimistic if there is little or no experimental results yet for the final stage of the project and most important part.

 

[MannyPim]

As far as I know, JPAerospace has been doing a lot of work on this concept. <br />There is some information on their website, however, they have been doing work under contract for various customers and they may not be willing to share the information you are looking for. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>The only way to know what is possible is to attempt the impossible.</em></font> </div>