How about we all work together

[gladiator1332]

Someone on the Orbiter forum brought this up about the CEV in a recent discussion:<br /><br />"Since the CEV's primary purpose will be going to the Moon I am doubtful that it will have wings. Likewise if the Klipper is used for trips out to lunar distance and back I imagine that would be done using a wingless version."<br /><br />This got me thinking. Why couldn't NASA join the ESA and Russia in developing Kliper. Russia and ESA would continue working on the winged ISS version, and NASA would work on the wingless Lunar version. <br />We would still use whatever launcher we would want...Russia and ESA would use Soyuz 3, and NASA would go with the Shuttle derived launchers. The only thing that would be different is that we would be all working on the same spacecraft. The VSE is supposed to be an international effort, why spend billions creating two spacecraft that can do the same thing. That's how it had to be back in the 60's when we were trying to beat the Russians to the Moon. <br />And now that we are both building similar biconics, we might as well go the next step and help eachother. <br />

 

[vt_hokie]

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/resource/aug05/0805nshut.html<br /><br />"AS FOR RELATIONS WITH NASA, after more than a decade of cooperation, the Russians had few illusions. Painful Russian delays in the delivery of key components for the space station during the 1990s had prompted the U.S. Congress and the press to pound NASA for "letting Russia into the critical path of the station," to use a favored expression. In 2000, Congress prohibited NASA from buying Russian hardware and services altogether, because of Russia's nuclear and missile cooperation with Iran. This meant, among other things, that Russia could not bid on contracts for NASA's Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV), planned to take astronauts to the moon and Mars and to put them into orbit. <br /><br />"There was no question but that NASA was going to build the CEV on its own," says Derechin. "America would not accept any dependency on Russia." Therefore, any interaction between the Kliper and CEV projects will be limited to "programmatic and engineering compatibility," he says. "We don't want a repetition of the Soyuz-Apollo [docking mission], where we had air and they had [pure] oxygen [in the life-support system]." (Incompatibility of the atmospheres of the two spacecraft seriously complicated transfers between them.) The CEV is intended to enter service after 2010, when the current Space Shuttle fleet is retired, and Kliper is expected to follow suit within two years."

 

[gladiator1332]

Yeah, that could be a problem. Some guys on the Orbiter forum have brought up a good point as well. Say if someday we do cooperate, and all of the space fairing nations come together and build one spacecraft, would that spacecraft fail because of a lack of competition. If we aren't constantly trying to have a better spacecraft than the other guy, will we stop trying to make things better. <br />Where would technology improve faster, with all of us competing or all of us working together?

 

[wvbraun]

Competition drives innovation and progress, cooperation kills it. That's why capitalism works and communism doesn't.

 

[benb]

The sharing of information is important in virtually all science-based operations. Commensurately a portion of the financial burden could be dispersed among several nations. <br /><br />However, I contend that this is an American issue. We, in the spirit of Gemini, Apollo etc.., should make it a point of National pride. It appears that the current NASA flunkies are more interested in shared "responsibility" (deflection of blame) than in actual acheivement. The spirit of defeatism surrounding NASA is palatable and certainly doesn't inspire astronauts nor the American public. <br /><br />"She was torn between Jupiter and Apollo<br />A Messenger arrived"<br /><br />"Changing of The Guard"- Bob Dylan <br /><br />It appears that "China On The Moon" ( COTM or caught anti-christ) is an inevitability. Since NASA has rebuked my approaches regarding the Grants Pass subliminal anti-christ beast and are continuing their policy of "incommunicado isolation" I see little on the horizon. The GP anti-christ is caught red-handed and with 1000's of pages as evidence of such and still NASA shows no interest in anything other than continuing People such as myself feel like Mulder on X-files. I mean really, how much information can they get from continued psycho-subliminal torture and regurgetated numberology and strained alpha-metrics? <br /><br />And while China steps in and steals the show the lackeys at NASA can ponder the fact that the entire thing was handed to them on a silver-platter and they blew it. <br /><br />"The horizon as been defeated <br />By the Pirates of a New Age<br />...until the drilling goes to far"<br /><br />"The Horizon Has Been Defeated"- Jack Johnson<br /><br />"The Human Mind can only take so much"<br /><br />"Saint Dominicks Preview"- Van Morrison

 

[wvbraun]

"It appears that "China On The Moon" ( COTM or caught anti-christ) is an inevitability. Since NASA has rebuked my approaches regarding the Grants Pass subliminal anti-christ beast and are continuing their policy of "incommunicado isolation" I see little on the horizon. The GP anti-christ is caught red-handed and with 1000's of pages as evidence of such and still NASA shows no interest in anything other than continuing People such as myself feel like Mulder on X-files. I mean really, how much information can they get from continued psycho-subliminal torture and regurgetated numberology and strained alpha-metrics?"<br /><br />Boy, if you're serious I'm *really* sorry for you.

 

[rubicondsrv]

And if he is not serious he is just another obnoxious troll. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[teije]

I read his post 3 times, and I really don't have a clue what it's about.<br />Does that mean my soul is lost already? <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[vt_hokie]

I didn't understand it either.

 

[nexium]

Ive listened to art Bell and Jeff Rince for 6 years plus, but what you typed still needs a lot mor details: The Grants Pass anti-christ? Alpha-metrics? Neil