How much more orbital debris before clean-up is commercialy profitable?

[nimbus]

Like the title says.. Aren't we at or past the limit of comfort, as far as debris in orbit is concerned? &nbsp;Will space-launchers take notice and attempt to reduce orbital pollution, or are most of them already doing the best they could? What means (besides cheaper access to space) are yet to be developed for a private group to make a profit from cleaning unwanted objects? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Cygnus_2112]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>1. &nbsp; Will space-launchers take notice and attempt to reduce orbital pollution, or are most of them already doing the best they could? </p><p>What means (besides cheaper access to space) are yet to be developed for a private group to make a profit from cleaning unwanted objects? <br /> Posted by nimbus</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>1.&nbsp; They already do.&nbsp; FAA and NASA requirement for US launches. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>2.&nbsp; only cheap access&nbsp;</p>

 

[BrianSlee]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Like the title says.. Aren't we at or past the limit of comfort, as far as debris in orbit is concerned? &nbsp;Will space-launchers take notice and attempt to reduce orbital pollution, or are most of them already doing the best they could? What means (besides cheaper access to space) are yet to be developed for a private group to make a profit from cleaning unwanted objects? <br />Posted by nimbus</DIV><br /><br />I would say aerogel has put itself in the running as a solution given its past performance.&nbsp; Might be some constraints though i.e. only particles up to certain sizes and relative velocities.&nbsp; Don't know enough about it from a physical standpoint to know the real feasabilities.&nbsp; Maybe someone with more specific knowledge could talk to that.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>"I am therefore I think" </p><p>"The only thing "I HAVE TO DO!!" is die, in everything else I have freewill" Brian P. Slee</p> </div>

 

[aphh]

Shuttle was originally supposed to be used for orbital cleaning had it been 100 times cheaper to operate. It's the only spacecraft currently capable of flying to a orbiting object and collecting it with the arm.<br />

 

[Cygnus_2112]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Shuttle was originally supposed to be used for orbital cleaning had it been 100 times cheaper to operate. It's the only spacecraft currently capable of flying to a orbiting object and collecting it with the arm. <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>No, it only can retrieve cooperative spacecraft that have a grabble fixture on it.&nbsp; It can't do anything with junk </p>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;No, it only can retrieve cooperative spacecraft that have a grabble fixture on it.&nbsp; It can't do anything with junk <br /> Posted by Cygnus_2112</DIV></p><p>If I'm not mistaken, Shuttle has actually brought back items, that were collected from the orbit. Perhaps manually placed into the payload bay by astronauts? It just wasn't anyway feasible method of operation.&nbsp;</p><p>Edit: I'm pretty sure this has happened way back in the past, when flying through a potential cloud of debris didn't halt the mission planning. &nbsp;</p>

 

[Cygnus_2112]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If I'm not mistaken, Shuttle has actually brought back items, that were collected from the orbit. Perhaps manually placed into the payload bay by astronauts? It just wasn't anyway feasible method of operation.&nbsp;Edit: I'm pretty sure this has happened way back in the past, when flying through a potential cloud of debris didn't halt the mission planning. &nbsp; <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>On those missions, a grapple fixture was installed by the astronauts or they manually grabbed it&nbsp;</p><p>Also there wasn't any cloud of debris. </p>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>On those missions, a grapple fixture was installed by the astronauts or they manually grabbed it&nbsp;Also there wasn't any cloud of debris. <br /> Posted by Cygnus_2112</DIV></p><p>There was no major impact from space debris during those missions, but parts fall off of old satellites in space just like parts fall off of any moving vehicle nearing end of life making approach of space junk a risky proposition.&nbsp;</p>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There was no major impact from space debris during those missions, but parts fall off of old satellites in space just like parts fall off of any moving vehicle nearing end of life making approach of space junk a risky proposition.&nbsp; <br />Posted by aphh</DIV><br /><br />The primary problem is the vast speed differences. The space objects that the shuttle returned or serviced were approached at just the right speed and had fixyures to grab them (with one exception I believe. I think one sat had to fixture). In any case, a multi million dollar mission to pick up each piece of space junk would quickly deplete any concievable budget before 1/1000 % of the debris could be removed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[tampaDreamer]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The primary problem is the vast speed differences. The space objects that the shuttle returned or serviced were approached at just the right speed and had fixyures to grab them (with one exception I believe. I think one sat had to fixture). In any case, a multi million dollar mission to pick up each piece of space junk would quickly deplete any concievable budget before 1/1000 % of the debris could be removed. <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />I figured it would have to be some kind of&nbsp;an electric drive rather than a&nbsp;rocket, and yes, it would be slow.&nbsp; Perhaps the disposal method would be to try to knock them down into the earth's atmosphere to burn up, rather than depositing them in a trash can somewhere.&nbsp; It would have to be a very gradual process done by several dozen very small craft. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nimbus]

<p>The biggest difficulty I see once in orbit (and I admit I haven't taken the time to study the matter in detail yet, e.g. what are the debris clouds' distribution like) is for one trash collector craft design to deal with all the different scales of objects flying up there. &nbsp;There's stuff as small as paint flakes. I suppose there ought to be some objects a little bigger, somewhere around the size of nuts and bolts, and then there's the complete derelict objects like abandonned sats. &nbsp;Would there be a substantial amount of objects between the size of nuts and bolts and that of whole satellites? &nbsp;I'm assuming there wouldn't be many of them - except in the case of wrecks like that chinese sat they recently practiced on. &nbsp;Clouds of mixed objects like that ought to be the most difficult to deal with.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Cygnus_2112]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>There was no major impact from space debris during those missions, but parts fall off of old satellites in space just like parts fall off of any moving vehicle nearing end of life making approach of space junk a risky proposition.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>No it doesn't.&nbsp; parts don't fall off old satellites. &nbsp; And if it did, they would be traveling at the same speed of the orginal satellite </p>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;No it doesn't.&nbsp; parts don't fall off old satellites. &nbsp; And if it did, they would be traveling at the same speed of the orginal satellite <br />Posted by Cygnus_2112</DIV></p><p>It is indeed a wee bit difficult to fall when one is "weightless" in freefall around the Earth.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>