How not to colonize space...

[kosmonavtkaa]

Interesting article: Space pioneers look to Australia's colonial past - on how not to repeat the same mistakes made when Australia was colonized (i.e. wrecking the natural environment).<br /><br /><font color="orange"><i>Doctor Toni Johnson-Woods says she and her colleagues found there is a prevailing belief that other planets and their natural resources are there simply to be exploited.<br /><br />"The focus is on exploitation of the minerals. Basically, it's just Australia all over again," she said.<br /><br />"You go out like the British did to Australia, you take everything you bloody can out of a place, and then you ping off."</i></font><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

Give me a break! The largest mining areas on the Earth might be visible on the surface of the moon if you had a fairly good telescope! And even this could not be done for the moons and asteroids that are further out into the solar system.<br /><br />The only place that I would even begin to urge caution would be Mars. There is absolutely no reason to just make Mars into a mining community as there are far more than enough materials on the asteroids and the moons of the solar system for a space faring civilization for thousands upon thousands of years into the future. And the potential materials on objects into the ort cloud are magnitudes more, and by the time we get to that area we should be able to build colony ships capable of reaching the stars themselves!<br /><br />I do however agree that Terra forming entire planets is a scary idea! There is enough material in just the asteroid belt to build space colonies (aka, Dr. G. K. O'niell's ideas) with the entire land area of the Earth multiplied by some 3,000 times! <br /><br />So there is absolutely no need to Terra form Mars or any other planet.

 

[halman]

You titled this thread "How not to colonize space."<br /><br />Space has an environment that consists of vacuum and energy. How are you going to ruin it? If you want to talk about individual planets, that is not 'space', that is 'Mars' or 'Mercury'. If we turn Mercury into a sponge, what difference will it make? Would we be better off exploiting Earth for the heavy metals available on Mercury? Will it make any difference if we consume several thousand asteroids to retrieve valuable materials? We have a choice between exploiting the resources of the Solar System or dying. Which would you choose? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[alokmohan]

We should mine as many asteroids as possible.

 

[JonClarke]

The space environment can be severely degraded by human activity. <br /><br />Space debris is just one example. Other present problems include pollution of certain frequencies by deliberate or accidental emissions at gamma ray and radio frequencies. <br /><br />Past problems include high altitude nuclerar tests that shortened the life of several satellites and the notorious needles experiment. <br /><br />Potential issues for the future include: Contamination of planetary surfaces by radioactive or toxic materials from both scientific and safety perspectives. Misuse of scarce resources such as lunar volatiles. Degradation of lunar vacuum though deliberate and accidental venting which may impact of both science programs and industries dependent on high quality vacuum.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Were on the right track so far on how not to colonize space. And that is, continually marginize human space exploration and underfund the agencies that can accomplish the task.<br /><br />The Newsweek mag with Mitt on the cover has an article about the fiftieth anniversary of Sputnik which does a good job of minimizing the Apollo program and of course, the article is on page 49. After all, the other Ms Spears (Page 7) is more important news. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

We require space colony to survive.

 

[JonClarke]

Tragic, isn't it?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

I don't know if its required, but one thing I do know. If we don't extend our reach into space. We will certainly not be able to do things that can only be done by civilizations that have extended themselves into space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Sure is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

qso you are very correct.We must therefore colonialise space.

 

[qso1]

I'm all for that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

<... the notorious needles experiment. ><br /><br />What is 'the notorious needles experiment'?<br />

 

[fear]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>What is 'the notorious needles experiment'? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>Maybe he meant that time they made a ring around the earth with a cloud of tiny needles (Link)? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nuaetius]

Life is the measure of value. Nothing has any value outside of life. We are the only living creatures that have the capacity's to expand ourself and the rest of life off this planet. All life on this planet is one mutation/meteor/ dark-age/plague/war/ice age away from losing the capacity to spread it's self beyond our little pond.<br /><br />Like it or not evolution has elected us as the land walking fish of space.

 

[thereiwas]

"Nothing has any value outside of life." That is a circular argument. Value for what purpose? As determined by what process? Who got to decide? Just us?

 

[nuaetius]

"Nothing has any value outside of life." That is a circular argument. Value for what purpose? As determined by what process? Who got to decide? Just us?<br /><br />Value, purpose, decide. Never met a rock, gas, or electrical charge that can debate these issues with us. When my pet rock debates it with me I will start picketing the granite mine down the road.<br /><br />Of course only we decide. As I said, when SETI presents us some other intelligence maybe we should reconsider. Until then it is all ours.<br /><br />Only really two choices, there is no God so therefore we are the closest thing to a God there is, or there is a god and I know of no religion that does not say that humanity is the steward of all assets in existence.<br /><br /><br />In the end the human population has continually increased since the last Ice age. Also the average consumption of humanity has increased steadily since the beginning of civilization. <br /><br />In the end our choices are expand off this planet, decrease the average human consumption of recourses century over century, or suffocate our selfs within a thousand years here. <br /><br />

 

[JonClarke]

That's the one!<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>Nothing has any value outside of life.</i><br /><br />So you see nothing of value in Mount Everest, the Dolomites, Yesomite, Lake Eyre, Kilimanjaro, Mt Erebus, or Igauzu Falls?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>> So you see nothing of value in Mount Everest, the Dolomites, Yesomite, Lake Eyre, Kilimanjaro, Mt Erebus, or Igauzu Falls? </i><br /><br />He means that only intellect can place value on those things. The thing, the mountain or ocean, cares not. Those things are only valuable because we humans value them. Perhaps other intellects place value, too. The dolphin probably values Ocean,, the wolf loves the Woods. But the value lies in the interaction of intellect and environment. Preserving the beauty of Earth is one of the strongest reasons for colonizing space.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The value that people face on such features not merely intellectual, it is also aesthetic and emotional.<br /><br />I would agree that going to space should teach us - and already has taught us - the importance of being better stewards of what we have here.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

Freaky! I'd never heard of that before.<br /><br />It demonstates an interesting technique that could be employed as an anti-satellite weapon. Perhaps the next generation of critical U.S. military satellites will have to include extra MMOD, capacity to dodge into a clear orbit, and substitute more compact nuclear power systems for large surface-area solar power systems.

 

[spacester]

A few of the things I've thought of on this subject . . .<br /><br />Everything is pollute-able.<br /><br />Almost everything is exploitable, with key exceptions. Unique Scientific and Aesthetic conditions account for most things I would put off-limits to exploitation.<br /><br />Pristine conditions are a limited resource. Once visited, any footprint puts that area in the non-pristine condition. Full photographic documentation should be made by pioneering equipment if at all practical, before a site is disturbed. Exceptions for well-organized mining operations perhaps should be made.<br /><br />Those are some of the guiding principles that should be put together by the space community. If environmentally aware and caring individuals approve them as founding principles, then we can avoid any mis-steps hinted at in the article.<br /><br />'Greenies' aren't going to like the 'everything is exploitable' part, but the rest lays down some ground rules.<br /><br />Personally, I say . . .<br /><br />Mine the heck out of the asteroids. <br /><br />Document the moon as you explore it and have fun on it and develop housing on it. <br /><br />Don't introduce massive amounts of Earth Germs on Mars until you've made a good solid inquiry for indigenous life first. <br /><br />Ceres will, I predict, prove so wonderful and fantastic that it might need to be put off limits for exploitation for a while - yet if it's the sole source of massive deposits of pure water ice we face a tough choice. <br /><br />If Phobos is wet, mine it.<br /><br />Mount a tour of NEOs, as many NEOs as possible. Try to find an Ore Body.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

What you are talking about here is VERY near Earth space, and I would agree that we do need to watch this area very heavily. But strangely enough what is really needed here are more human beings in LEO to actually help to not only not pollute more, but even to help clean up what is already there from former times when we were not so careful.<br /><br />For instance we could place some three large manned platforms at GEO then take up ALL the extra older satellites at that orbit. This would not only facilitate continued maintenance of that important orbital resource, but at the same time almost totally clean up the debris form what is already a very crowded area of space! <br /><br />However, once you get beyond the orbit of the moon it become alnost totally impossible for the limited resources of humanity to even begin to pollute space itself. And the other side of the moon, which can not even be seen from the Earth, is also an area the can be relatively exploited for its reources without actually harming it very much. As I stated earlier, you would need to have a very powerful telescope to even see the largest mines on the Earth if they were to be somehow transported to the visable lunar surface. <br /><br />By the time such mining could even become a pollution problem on the moon, asteriodal mining itself would have taken over, and humanity could then expand into space almost forever before this even bacame any kind of a problem (if ever). The materials all the way out into the ort cloud (a sphere almost an entire light year in diameter), are almot totally limitless. By the time we could even begin to exploit such materials we should be able to travel (in O.Niell type colonies if nothing else) to nearby stars. If we (as the results of SETi seem to indicate) are truly the only fully sentient life form in our nearby steller space, then the future can indeed be almost limitless without worrying about such pollution at all!!<br /><br />Of course, this all depends on whe

 

[thereiwas]

A clean ocean has value to the animals living in it, even if they are not able to intellectually recognize or articulate that fact. That value exists whether or not there are humans around who recognize it.<br /><br />I do not believe in "manifest destiny". But space is a big place, and there is plenty of room for us to noodle about, as long as we are careful about other indigenous sentient beings.