How ???

[NicoleRiver]

Hi again.

i have some thoughts about some stuff. please enlighten me.

so, as far as i get it, the universe is endless and it can not have a begining. actually, it's not the universe i'm talking about but the space itself. the black emptyness. it can't have an ending because it's not there, yet it exists, as a notion to say the least. the reason it can not have a begining is because it can't have directions or a starting point, it's not an object ! is it ?

so the thing we call the universe is within this endless emptyness right ? well, since the black space is endless, the volume of the whole universe ought to be equal to a single molecule within it. yet the molecule itself should be divisible till forever, because it also has a volume in the concept of endlessness. so, an object could get larger till forever, and it could get smaller till forever, but it doesn't matter because it'll exactly get nowhere within the space.

now, i'm wondering...

the black space is nothingness without the tiny little universe we know (although let's not forget the fact that our universe could be one little galaxy itself, there might be countless trillions of universes within the space). i'm wondering how it physically came into being, as a sensible notion ? it's not there yet we can conceive it ! if we can conceive it, it means it's a being ! both physically and morally. it's created because nothing can exist without a source, yet it can't have a begining aswell ? (reminder : i'm talking about the black space, not the universe nor the big bang) you think it was always there along with the creator ? cause obviously the creator wouldn't wait to create a playgound maybe ?

and about big bang...

where did the particles come from ?

basicly :

so those particles were just floating around ? well how did they even enter the black space ? the space doesn't have entering doors does it (or walls for that matter ?, it's endless !) if they never entered, it means they existed forever. but it's not possible because scientifically nothing can exist without a source which brings me to the fact that the emptyness is not emptyness. the space (they call it black matter right?) must be able to evolve and bring out these energies. kinda like the wavelenghts maybe ?

what do you think about all this ?

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Well, "Space" really isn't expanding into anything. In other words, all that "black emptiness" doesn't exist. Space is expanding, that is all.

It's like being on the inside of an impenetrable balloon. There is no way possible, ever, for you to ever possibly know or be effected by or know about anything on the outside of that balloon, ever.. never, ever. It doesn't exist. Your balloon, however, has the curious property of expanding and the effect is to create more "space." The further you examine it the further it becomes obvious that everything you can possibly observe about your Universe is contained within it. It isn't expanding into anything. As far as you could ever possibly be aware, and anyone else could ever possibly know, space is simply expanding itself and not expanding "into" anything.

Now, as far as being "endless" and not having a beginning, that's not exactly what is currently believed. So far, the Big Bang theory appears to hold water and accounts for the vast majority of observed qualities of the Universe. Of course, there are a few, tiny, bits that have to be puzzled out. But, it's safe to say with what we know now that the Big Bang theory is the most solid of all our ideas for how Everything got here. Variations exist but, they mostly subscribe to the same flavor of "Big Bang." That would be somewhere around 14 billion years ago, give or take a few million. So, that's definitely a "beginning."

As far as "infinite divisibility" goes, that is most likely not the case. Somewhere in the jumble of elementary particles there is likely to be a truly indivisible particle - A fundamental particle so small that it can not be divided. But, we don't really know what the smallest possible particle could be. Quantum physics deals with treating a lot of particles as "points." That is, they have no dimensions at all. But, that doesn't work out really well. String theory changes things and make the smallest particles into strings that stretch into other dimensions. So far, quarks are the smallest particles we can imagine and are modeled as points in one set of theories and strings in another. How "big" they are or if there are constituents there we don't know about is something that's up for grabs. Likely, any definitive answer will await developments in technology. But, at what point does it make a difference? It may be that we are only capable of noticing something down to a certain point in measurements. After that, it's off the drawing board.. maybe.

Where did it all come from?

That's a big question and nobody has a definitive answer yet. In just about every scenario the only way to investigate it involves maths that end up breaking down into an incomprehensible amount of jibberish at about 10[super]-43[/super] seconds after the Big Bang. After that period, we can theorize what happened though. Further, we can get a pretty good handle on the probable occurrences in the First Three Minutes.

Various Big Bang theories exist out there. All have their problems in that we simply don't have the knowledge necessary to figure out "how" it all happened. That it did happen is, of course, self-explanatory - We are here. But, exactly what got us here is a huge question. Different ideas surrounding the Big Bang theory range from Multiple Universes, Ekpyrotic Theories, some interesting ones dealing with Symmetry of virtual particle pairs in another Universe, Cyclical Models and, the list goes on. Everyone has their favorite.

As far as creating something from nothing, it may be that idea breaks down at the moment of the Big Bang. After all, what is "something" if the only way you can define it is within a closed system subjected to rigid rules and it doesn't feel like cooperating? What happens when something originates from a set of rules you can not possibly identify? Is it nothing? Is it "something" or, if you can never possibly observe it in any way, does it even matter?

*Mostly, just my unprofessional explanations are listed above. But, I tried to cover enough for you to grab a Google search and run with it. Welcome to SDC!

 

[NicoleRiver]

hi ! thanks for the welcome. : )

please forgive me but i have to keep asking i guess.

Well, "Space" really isn't expanding into anything. In other words, all that "black emptiness" doesn't exist. Space is expanding, that is all.

It's like being on the inside of an impenetrable balloon. There is no way possible, ever, for you to ever possibly know or be effected by or know about anything on the outside of that balloon, ever.. never, ever. It doesn't exist. Your balloon, however, has the curious property of expanding and the effect is to create more "space." The further you examine it the further it becomes obvious that everything you can possibly observe about your Universe is contained within it. It isn't expanding into anything. As far as you could ever possibly be aware, and anyone else could ever possibly know, space is simply expanding itself and not expanding "into" anything.

I don't understand ? how is it possible ? if it's not expanding into anything, than it can't expand at all. tell me, the outside of the balloon (or the universe) isn't still, the space ? the black emptyness ? well if it's empty, then it means it is pure space ! which means that it's pure "possibility" and that it exists as a being (not physical but notional). if it (the black emptyness outside the universe) didn't exist, then how would we comprehend it at all ? i try to think differently, but my mind won't accept it. basicly, if the universe is expanding, then it means there's space which makes it possible to expand, am i wrong on this ? "nothingness" is still a being, because it's there even if it doesn't contain anything. the universe is expanding and it's always limited at a certain point. but the space can't be limited, cause it's absolute. so the balloon is sort of in need of the space.imagine the universe as an expanding box, there's always outside the box ! and it's what i call the endless space.

Now, as far as being "endless" and not having a beginning, that's not exactly what is currently believed. So far, the Big Bang theory appears to hold water and accounts for the vast majority of observed qualities of the Universe. Of course, there are a few, tiny, bits that have to be puzzled out. But, it's safe to say with what we know now that the Big Bang theory is the most solid of all our ideas for how Everything got here. Variations exist but, they mostly subscribe to the same flavor of "Big Bang." That would be somewhere around 14 billion years ago, give or take a few million. So, that's definitely a "beginning."

I was talking about the "emptyness", not having a begining. It wasn't about the big bang. the emptyness can't have a begining because it's not energy (unless it's not what they call the black matter), like i said above, it's absolute. I know big bang has a begining because it just has to. There's no other explanation to it. but the space can't have a size because it's nothing. so it can't have a finishing or a starting point.

As far as "infinite divisibility" goes, that is most likely not the case. Somewhere in the jumble of elementary particles there is likely to be a truly indivisible particle - A fundamental particle so small that it can not be divided. But, we don't really know what the smallest possible particle could be. Quantum physics deals with treating a lot of particles as "points." That is, they have no dimensions at all. But, that doesn't work out really well. String theory changes things and make the smallest particles into strings that stretch into other dimensions. So far, quarks are the smallest particles we can imagine and are modeled as points in one set of theories and strings in another. How "big" they are or if there are constituents there we don't know about is something that's up for grabs. Likely, any definitive answer will await developments in technology. But, at what point does it make a difference? It may be that we are only capable of noticing something down to a certain point in measurements. After that, it's off the drawing board.. maybe.

how can there be indivisibility ? is it possible ? the size don't matter inside an endless space. i mean, all things are relative are they not ? when i see this from someplace else, i feel that anything should be able to be divided forever.

Where did it all come from?

That's a big question and nobody has a definitive answer yet. In just about every scenario the only way to investigate it involves maths that end up breaking down into an incomprehensible amount of jibberish at about 10[super]-43[/super] seconds after the Big Bang. After that period, we can theorize what happened though. Further, we can get a pretty good handle on the probable occurrences in the First Three Minutes.

Various Big Bang theories exist out there. All have their problems in that we simply don't have the knowledge necessary to figure out "how" it all happened. That it did happen is, of course, self-explanatory - We are here. But, exactly what got us here is a huge question. Different ideas surrounding the Big Bang theory range from Multiple Universes, Ekpyrotic Theories, some interesting ones dealing with Symmetry of virtual particle pairs in another Universe, Cyclical Models and, the list goes on. Everyone has their favorite.

i really can't understand anything about the cause of the big bang. i mean, what collided with what, how, and why ? and imagine a video camera recording it all ; what would we see ? where did those colliding particles come from... did they just appear in nothingness all of a sudden ? it's just crazy...

As far as creating something from nothing, it may be that idea breaks down at the moment of the Big Bang. After all, what is "something" if the only way you can define it is within a closed system subjected to rigid rules and it doesn't feel like cooperating? What happens when something originates from a set of rules you can not possibly identify? Is it nothing? Is it "something" or, if you can never possibly observe it in any way, does it even matter?

*Mostly, just my unprofessional explanations are listed above. But, I tried to cover enough for you to grab a Google search and run with it. Welcome to SDC!

and thank you for the huge answer !