I grabbed this off the MOC site just before it was removed

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conradk1

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I wish I could attach larger images as there is a lot of evidence of recent water erosions. Some can be seen in the upper right hand corner of section A. The thing that grabbed my attention in A is what appears to be trees hanging over the edge of a cliff. It appears that the ridge of the ledge is uncovered and a rock surface is exposed. The round "tree" looking things do not go all the way to the ridge but stop short. In some places it appears that they hang over the edge. The images is lit from the bottom left.<br /><br />Section B is an area not far from section A. The two arrows in the center point to what appears to be a number of fairly geometrical objects laid out in a fairly geometrical manner. Also quite peculiar is the shape that the lower right arrow in section B is pointing to. Elsewhere in this image there are rows of "dots" that do not fit the surrounding landscape (sections A,B and C are only about 5% of the whole MOC image).<br /><br />Section C does not need an arrow.<br /><br />The full MOC photo is littered with really strange things. I found the same location on a Themis image and was shocked to see a thick snow cover right in the vicinity of these sections. Why was I shocked? Because this location is closer to the equator than the pole.<br /><br />These observations are subjective so I would love to hear what others think.<br /><br />Conrad
 
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darknovaangel

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I suppose you could be right, though it is quite hard to see anything from the photo. Good timing grabbing it off then.<br />- Angel
 
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JonClarke

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Hi Conrad<br /><br />Great images! They look like a good example of patterned ground, common in permafrost areas on Earth.<br /><br />As a rule it a very good idea to give a link to their source. ALso, tell us what are their scale and where on Mars they are from. Can you do this?<br /><br />What's your evidence this image was removed? Do you have an image number?<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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henryhallam

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I really don't see trees or geometrical objects in there, even if I squint and turn my head.
 
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earth_bound_misfit

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Try staring at it longer. Hang on, is that a nipple? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>
 
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lampblack

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<font color="yellow">Try staring at it longer. Hang on, is that a nipple?</font><br /><br />Oh, Lordy... now that you've said that, I look at that picture and <i>I can't see anything else!</i> <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Nipples on Mars belong in the Phenomena forum, methinks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>
 
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conradk1

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Jon,<br /><br />I normally copy off the browser and paste in Photoshop and adjust some parameters to try flush out different details. This image was left open in Photoshop for a few days. When I went back to the MOC site to look at the details all I received was a page not found error. <br /><br />I am hoping that this is just an error and that it will return as it would be really helpful the know the scale. <br /><br />
 
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JonClarke

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Conrad<br /><br />Most likely the image was not removed but merely experienced a technical glitch, as happens with the best run web sites from time to time. Have you checked again recently? It could be back.<br /><br />However, unless you can be more specific about where you find it it could really hard for any one else to track it down . Where on the MOC site was it? Was it a MOC picture of the day, was it one of the images listed by feature type? Was it off the archive?<br /><br />BTW, for future reference, topics like this would be better in the space science and astronomy section. You would get more interested discussion there than in this part, which is mainly about the technology.<br /><br />Best wishes<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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no_way

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I normally copy off the browser and paste in Photoshop and adjust some parameters to try flush out different details<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Normally ? Is this a regular activity of yours ? And why dont you indeed move this stuff into phenomena forum where it belongs.
 
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JonClarke

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I do think conrad has the power to move the thread <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> . If what he is suggesting is simply discussing some interesting images it belongs in SSA. But of course if he thinks there is some conspiracy to pull images from the MOC web site for whatever reason then indeed it is Phenomena fodder.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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Neither do I.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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para3

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I also copied and pasted the images to a bitmap, saved them and than opened the bitmap in my Photosuite program. Than I blew them up. I do see tree like things. But, upon closer examination, these tree like formations look more like part of the rocky landscape on the Martian surface. I'm a professional artist and am more aware of things like that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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I don't see anything that looks like trees.<br />Since the atmosphere is so thin, and there is virtually no moisture, trees really stretch explanation.<br />Hopefully, there will be better blow ups in the future. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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conradk1

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Jon, <br /><br />I looked for a way to move this thread to SSA (no conspiracy theory here, just saying I cannot get to the image any longer). I don't believe I have the access required to do this. I think a moderator would need to move the thread.<br /><br />Everyone,<br /><br />I enlarged parts of the images and drew red lines around the items of note. <br /><br />My thinking here is that many eyeballs are better than one and not being a trained or experienced satellite image reader I am hoping that some kind of consensus can be established on the nature of these observations. <br /><br />My point about the "tree" looking objects was not to imply that these are trees but rather to explore the question of "what can protrude over the edge of a cliff". They could be rock formations, I don't know. <br /><br />Also in B1 I have outlined in red a few of the "structures" in question. These do look like some kind of non natural structures, but again that is just me. Do others also see that?<br /><br />Most of all I am very interested in someone explaining away the object in the bottom right hand portion of B1.<br />
 
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henryhallam

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Do you have a scale for the images?<br />It still looks like rock formations to me. Small rocky outcrops do protrude over the edges of cliffs on Earth, and they could do on Mars as well - erosion still takes place (dust storms, thermal cycling) and some rocks will erode more quickly than others.<br />I don't see anything that suggests life.<br />I'm sure that the professional geologists analysing these images will speak up if something truly unusual appears.
 
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conradk1

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I did some more digging. Here's some more info. <br /><br />Latitude is 60deg north = may get warm enough to allow water ice/snow to melt.<br /><br />Altitude is between -6000 and -7000 meters = enough pressure to keep water in a liquid state.<br /><br />Attached image shows plenty of ice/snow on the ground. There is also a lot of water vapor/clouds in the air. <br /><br />Just seems like a nice place to start a life. <br /><br />-Conrad
 
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drwayne

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Moved from M&L.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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Hi Conrad<br /><br />You can't move threads, only the moderators do that. You can ask themto move thread if you want, or they can use their own discretion.<br /><br />Thank you for more info on the image, at least its latitude. Since you have both a themis and a MOC image you should have links to the original. Please suppy them, it would make assessing the images easier. Also, as others have asked, what is the scale? It is important to know whether we are looking at things metres acros of kilometres across.<br /><br />BTW, nobody is in the business of trying to "explain away" anything. With more information in the site on Mars and the scale of the image some of us might tender an interpretation, however.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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conradk1

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Jon,<br /><br />The moderator already moved this from Missions to SSA.<br /><br />Browser history does come in handy after all (click on June... http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/publicresults/ )<br />Here's what I have been able to put together.<br /><br />Still on the MOC site just not linked...<br />Narrow Angle:<br />http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/publicresults/2006/06/S19-02031p.gif<br />Wide angle:<br />http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/publicresults/2006/06/S19-02032p.gif<br /><br />Also:<br />http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/publicresults/2006/06/S19-02031.imq<br />http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/publicresults/2006/06/S1902031_02032.tab<br /><br />Some Themis images:<br />http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/V09846001.html<br />http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/I02294005.html<br />http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/V02294006.html<br /><br /><br />Topography:<br />http://ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/Mars_topography_from_MOLA/M_80_90_60_70.html<br /><br />A few more observations:<br />On the narrow angle image (first link above on S19-02031p.gif) there are a number of white spots that if not artifacts would indicate a fire on a band 3 infrared image. These can be seen in the crater
 
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enigma10

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<i>Nipples on Mars belong in the Phenomena forum, methinks.</i><br /><br /> Well. Some still theorize life may have come from mars. Nipples make sense.<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> *nods*<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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Sorry Conrad, for not responding earlier, it got buried. Thanks for the location info also.<br /><br />As for image width MOC images are typically 3 km wide. Assuming this is the case here, the polygons are ~20-30 m across, which is about right for ice wedge networks, at least on earth.<br /><br />I have no idea what the small ridges and depressions are.<br /><br />I also have no idea why these particular images, acquired under the MGS MOC Public Target Request Program, are listed (June 2006, S19) but are not available. perhpas the person requesting them as asked for them to be kept unavailable a bit longer, maybe there is a technical glitch. How about you contact MSSS regarding this?<br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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