i have a question

[renato24]

Wouldn't it be easier if we built spaceships in outer space and launch them from there?? because we would not have to deal with gravity ?

 

[MeteorWayne]

Hi there, welcome to SDC. Good question, here's my take on the answers.<br /><br />In some ways it makes sense, but you still have to lift the same weight of materials up into LEO (Low Earth Orbit) to have the pieces to assemble. Plus you have to lift up each crew and assembly vehicle, multiple times if you are to assemble in space. No savings. <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />If you add it all up, for most situations, it's a net loss.<br /><br />However, if in the future you use materials from "out there", like the moon or a near earth asteroid (NEA), then <b> maybe </b> the savings in energy needed to launch the materials from earth is worth it. We'll have to see where the ability to launch to an assembly area evolves over the next few decades.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

Hello and welcome. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />MW hits the heart of the matter. It costs (IIRC) $10,000 to lift one pound (or 6 nice big Idaho potatoes) into LEO.<br /><br />Even if we had a nice, big iron rich asteroid parked in Earth orbit, we would still need to lift millions of tons of stuff "up" to it to build the manufacturing facilities to refine the ore, the equipment to mine the ore, and the thousands of people and supplies they would need. That's a lot of potatoes.<br /><br />Obviously, the first solution to that dilemma would be having propulsion/boost systems that reduce costs to a few dollars or few tens of dollars per pound. But if we get there, then we wouldn't need to build ships in space.<br /><br />Building ships in space. Another hurdle. How many people would it take to build a ship the size of an aircraft carrier? The short answer is however many it takes to build an aircraft carrier. Certainly, a thousand or two. Who would all need heavy, cumbersome (and expensive) spacesuits to work in a very harsh environment.<br /><br />Which means that we have to build habitats in space for the workers, and supply them.<br /><br />If we're going to explore even our own solar system and exploit its resources, and colonize it, we'll need big ships and lots of them. A little tin can like the proposed Orion class capsule isn't going to do the job.<br /><br />So, no. It wouldn't be easier to build in space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>If we're going to explore even our own solar system and exploit its resources, and colonize it, we'll need big ships and lots of them. A little tin can like the proposed Orion class capsule isn't going to do the job.</i><br /><br />Nobody is suggesting that we will explore the solar system with just Orion. All, all being well it will be a compoent of a system that will be able to explore the inner solar system.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Welcome to the forum!<br /><br />Orbotal assembly is essential if you want to build spacecraft in orbit larger than your largest launcher. that is why the two largest spacecraft to date, Mir and the ISS have been built using orbital assembly. It is sometimes difficult and always time consuming, but sometimes there is no alternative.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[heyscottie]

Yes, but just to reiterate to ensure everybody undertands ... you CAN'T "get around" the gravity issue if you are using materials from Earth.

 

[5billionyearslater]

I think building the Space Shuttle in space is a completely idiotic thing to do. It's not financial viable let alone practical and whoever said Gravity was an issue!?<br /><br />Lest we forget, you still have to get all the materials up there in the first place and somehow build the damn thing with limited electrical power and man power and in zero gravity.<br /><br />BTW, Space Shuttles aren't built by astronauts, they are built by engineers and they are not astronauts. So who is going to piece together all the bits once they are up there?<br /><br />"Outer space" is out of our solar system, I think you meant in the orbit of Earth, which still very much inner space.<br /><br />Bonkers, just bonkers! - enough time wasted on this lol!

 

[deapfreeze]

"BTW, Space Shuttles aren't built by astronauts, they are built by engineers and they are not astronauts. So who is going to piece together all the bits once they are up there?"<br /><br />I think that we have smart enough astronauts. They are putting the ISS together aren't they? So the only real issue is man power. We can get to space put stuff together but we don't have enough people that are qualified to work in space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>William ( deapfreeze ) Hooper</em></font></p><p><font size="1">http://deapfreeze-amateur-astronomy.tk/</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

you speak the truth<br /><br />instead of building in space we should build on the ground some huge space going ship like from star wars and then either get it up there with the help of some huge boosters or else carry it up in substantial parts and just assemble it up there and the idea is that that would be done just once, the ship would stay up there and astronauts would be lifted there like to ISS and take the ship to Mars or wherever and when they returned they would park it in orbit and get down in shuttles or something<br /><br />there would be the problem of refueling it for trips but everybody always has full mouth how we can make fuel on the Moon or Mars so let them show us<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[renato24]

thats why i think it would be easier to build it up there because we wouldnt have to worry about huge thrusters to lift the stuff up. we would have only to worry about small trips up there.

 

[Slate]

Space based construction is the only sensible way to move forward with any kind of large scale exploration attempt. This will not happen until humans get serious and stop using space as a hobby/political playground. The man power exists and there is an interest in doing this . Technology is available as well the only thing lacking is the leadership to put the resources together to make this happen. There is far more material available in space then there is on the earth not to mention moving all the environmental issues that come along with this activity off planet. Solar energy can be harvested to power things like foundries, machine shops, research and development infrastructure. All of this can be built in space with materials from space by people living in space <br /><br /> Impossible you say ? Think for a moment what ancient societies like the Egyptians, the Mayans, Greeks, Romans, Persians, Chinese, accomplished. What did these people have ? Technology ? Well I don’t think you can call a string, rock, square, simple copper and stone tools technology at least not compared to what we have today. So what else did they have ? Man power? They had ample supply. Leadership ? Ahh here is the key to these great societies success <br />They had leaders that had vision and were able to take the simple tools and the man power available to them and create greatness the likes of which had not been seen in the previous 50,000 years and they did this while mankind was still recovering from a near extinction 5-10 k years earlier <br /><br />Imagine if you will 100,000 people backed by strong leadership with the vision of going to space and staying . Armed with to days technology establishing a beach head in space how many more would gladly wish to join with them ? <br /><br />All I ask you to do is think of the possibilities

 

[qso1]

slate:<br />Space based construction is the only sensible way to move forward with any kind of large scale exploration attempt.<br /><br />Me:<br />I agree 100%.<br /><br />However, this may have to come in two phases. The sheer scale of space based construction will require we move some kind of mass to where the construction is going to take place.<br /><br />Phase 1 would be the deployment of space manufacturing facilities to sites where they will be utilized.<br /><br />Phase 2 would be the point where the facilities become relatively self sustaining. Once their operations are underway, the need for earthly launches diminishes.<br /><br />And example:<br /><br />Lunar mining.<br /><br />Phase one would send the equipment need to get operations started. This could be a one year several heavy lift deployed operation. Or an operation lasting five or more years. Once it is at minimal operational capability, phase 2 begins.<br /><br />Phase two would be the facilities flown to the moon begin to manufacture lunar material based facilities and equipment, then deploy that wherever required, L-5 for example.<br /><br />As for the leadership, I think the era of big government led space programs, especially human ones, is largely over. The leadership will emerge from private industry/enterprise efforts. Starting with lowering the cost of access enough to allow for phase one type space industrialization to begin. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[5billionyearslater]

I think what renato24 is suggesting is to build the space shuttle in space which to my eyes is impractical at this stage.<br /><br />In the future there will be building in space but will mainly come in the form of Lunar escavating as said earlier.<br /><br />renato24 is suggesting the idea of building the space shuttle in space because you wouldn't have to deal with gravity and thrusters. Ironically, you will have to deal with these forces much more frequently.<br /><br />In the future they build the space shuttle on the Moon but I think for now building them on planet earth is the only practical way to do it and like I said, who said Gravity was a problem? <br /><br />And thrusters!!? You would probably still need thrusters because of Newtons First Law of Motion!<br />