If Jupiter was somehow turned into a star...

[treehugger1081]

I have a silly question. We were watching 2010, the sequel to Stanley Kubrick's film 2001: A Space Odessey. In that movie, the aliens who built the monolith turn Jupiter in to a sun. <br /><br />Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote the original novels, mentions human-caused global warming in later books in the series, but, if I remember correctly, does not say anything about the effects of having two suns instead of one. <br /><br />So if that were to happen, how much would that effect the Earth's climate and what other effects whould it have?

 

[willpittenger]

I think he mainly stated that Lucifer was only bright enough to banish night. (Actually, he probably goofed there. Night would return as strong as ever when Lucifer was on the other side of the Sun (err Sol). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[enigma10]

Jupiter would be too small to become a star. If it somehow did, it would be an extremely small one. About the size of our moon, if not smaller. <br /><br /> Also, it would increase the level of radiation the earth recieves, thus heating it up a little. Considering out current global warming issues, this would be bad. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[nexium]

We do not presently have the technology to cause Jupiter to behave like a star. We may never have such technology. Since Jupiter has about 1% of the surface area of our Sun it would produce about 1% as much heat and light, if Jupiter's photosphere was the same temperature as our sun. The distance to Jupiter (from Earth) is about 3.16 (average) times, farther than our sun, so the light and heat would be reduced another ten times to one thousandth as much as we get from the Sun. Jupiter would appear brighter than Venus, but would not provide as much light as a full moon. Impact on Earth would be minor, unless the Jupiter photosphere was much hotter than the photosphere of our Sun and/or Jupiter got a bigger radius as a result of the modification. Neil

 

[dragon04]

Were it possible, the Monolith builders would have cooked themselves a red dwarf, most likely by the process described in the book.<br /><br />Let's use Proxima Centauri as a template. It's a red dwarf (Class M) star with about 2% the mass of our Sun.<br /><br />As far as temperatures go, the "habitable zone around Proxima would be orbits of between roughly 250,000 and 550,000 miles or so.<br /><br />Data from here:<br /><br />Red dwarfs can be significantly larger, but by the process described in the book/movie (and in no great detail), I'll assume the smallest red dwarf possible.<br /><br />I'll also disregard other properties of certain red dwarfs such as flare activity as well.<br /><br />I would think that a small red dwarf in the "Clarkian" Solar System would have little or no effect on the amount of energy absorbed by Earth.<br /><br />The most notable (and probably only) effect would be how much brighter the night sky would be. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">It seems likely to me that at the very least, the orbit of Saturn and Mars might grow more eccentric were such an event to occur.</font><br /><br />Great point that I overlooked. Not to mention the asteroid belt being perturbed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Actually, Clarke found a way. He had the monoliths making Jupiter more dense. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Would the orbits be affected mainly by solar wind? From the brightness reports you two have been suggesting, I would expect that to be minimal. That leaves Jupiter/Lucifer's new mass distribution. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Uh, even monoliths can't "create" mass without a lot more power than they are mentioned of having on hand. However (and 2010 backs me up here), you could turn the non-fissionable materials (like methane) into something denser -- like steel. (The book has the monoliths making more monoliths somehow, but they needed raw materials.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Hold one.<br /><br />The Monoliths didn't substantially add to the mass of Jupiter (unless their mass was Neutronium in character). What they did was compress the mass of Jupiter into a small enough region that Fusion was initiated.<br /><br />Further, though there might be some effect on other planets due to light pressure and the "new" solar wind, the mass hasn't really changed, so the effct here on other planets would be negligible. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">Would the orbits be affected mainly by solar wind? .</font><br /><br />I think not likely. A red dwarf is a convective star. They kind of just bubble like a pot of boiling water to transfer heat.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">The Monoliths didn't substantially add to the mass of Jupiter (unless their mass was Neutronium in character). What they did was compress the mass of Jupiter into a small enough region that Fusion was initiated.</font><br /><br />Hmm. That wasn't the impression I got. Sending mass towards the core of the planet would have caused what I took as implosion to ignite hydrogen fusion.<br /><br />A rather neat trick. You could do some really cool things if you could compress hydrogen into solid, massive blocks, render each individual block "massless" with respect to everything around them via some field and then dropping those fields simultaneously once they had congregated near the core pf the gas giant.<br /><br />Of course, you'd get a type 1a supernova more than likely without some way to moderate the reaction.<br /><br />At any rate, whatever happened would be impressive. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[yevaud]

There is a line from the book, in which the planet (Jupiter) is seen to be "shrinking into itself" - clearly compressing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">There is a line from the book, in which the planet (Jupiter) is seen to be "shrinking into itself" - clearly compressing.</font><br /><br />Yeah, but if you've ever seen the movie, the "black" moves to the center of Jupiter before "detonation", and the monoliths are "sucking" gas into them, IIRC.<br /><br />Either way, all you'd get would be an explosion, I think, as jupiter doesn't have sufficient mass to sustain fusion. You'd just get the Mother Of All H-bombs.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[enigma10]

This thread has turned into a scifi thread. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Not really. It is very heavy on the "science" part with minimal relience on the "fiction." When we talk about the book, we are limiting our discussion to what was written. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Actually, the sequel, 2061, does call the event an "implosion." Also, you and Yevaud appear to be talking about the same thing. He calls it "compress the mass". You called it "dropping the mass". Same thing in my book. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">Yes, but how could Jupiter sustain fusion as a new star unless it's mass was increased?</font><br /><br />I'm drawing on old and fuzzy memory here -- but wasn't the fusion sustained only for something like 1,000 years? That's a drop in the bucket in celestial time.<br /><br />Someone smart enough to spark a fusion reaction in Jupiter's atmosphere likely could also figure out how to sustain it for a millennium or so. So, an implosion of some sort employing a technique to make the existing mass more dense seems to make more sense than somehow magically adding to the planet's mass.<br /><br />Of course, none of this makes <i>much</i> sense. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<i>2061</i> has Lucifer failing in about the year 3000. However, <i>3001</i> has Lucifer going strong. Go figure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Actually, his memory is correct. The humans were warned that Lucifer would shine for approximately 1,000 years, then extinguish. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Strange. I don't remember that at all. I do remember <i>2061</i> having the Monolith in the UN square waking up when Lucifer went dark. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>