If things had been different with Venus

[ExplorerAtHeart]

If Venus was different and had another atmosphere that was 1 mb or less at the atmosphere and was a reasonable temperature how would our colonization focus be different. It has a good gravity at .8.

If venus was different which one do you think we would go to first, Mars or Venus. How would the efforts look.

What if Venus was the same as it is now but had a large moon like ours?

 

[kelvinzero]

Actually, I have heard that Venus does have about the right temperature and pressure.. just not at ground level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonizati ... xploration:

Others suggest a different approach, however, claiming that rather than attempting to colonize Venus' hostile surface, humans might attempt to colonize the Venusian atmosphere (the most habitable known part of any planet outside Earth). This is because at an altitude of approximately 50 kilometers (in Venus's upper atmosphere), the pressure and temperature are Earth-like (1 bar and 0-50 degrees Celsius).

Another earthlike world is not necessarily what we should wish for though. Earth is very hard to launch from. look at all the infrastructure just to get a handful of people to low earth orbit! Imagine if you had to launch all that infrastructure from earth, move it to venus, drop it, assemble it, just to hope to get a handful of people back. I dont know if we could do that even yet. And the only way it would really help colonization outside of earthlike worlds would be to provide a (very expensive) tourist destination. Orbital hotels could prove much cheaper and more unique destinations.

If there really is significant ice at the moon's lunar poles, the moon may turn out to be the best possible learning ground for colonizing the solar system. Easy to land on and leave, within a few days travel, (it now appears) very possibly all the resources we need to begin developing all the skills we need to colonize the many small cold icy worlds of the outer solar system.

 

[EarthlingX]

Venus is also very close from LEO, delta V wise, about the same as Mars, if not less, without checking. For me, it has at least as much colonization potential as Mars, if not better, just a bit different approach.

I would love to see something done in this area, as soon as we can get there, i mean people, not bots.

 

[Couerl]

Two questions that are unrelated, but for fun's sake..

If Venus were different how? More earth-like? Less inhospitable? Then yes, clearly we would go there first despite any greater escape velocity blah, blah. This is a simple engineering problem and not an insurmountable issue. Concerns over radiation on Mars etc are similarly non-issues, but long term living on a planet with lower gravity would eventually turn us in to skinny, little weak aliens. :lol:

If you ask me, I think going to either one without a long term strategy is rather silly and a bit like taking a vacation in the middle of the desert. "We're here, now what"? :ugeek:

In order for us to create a long-term presence on either one of these rocks we're going to have to plan and treat it just like the military treats its own logistical problems. One of the largest military bases in the world right now is out in the middle of the Iraqi desert and it couldn't be there without daily flights of men and material and supplies etc.. On mars or Venus we would want the base already built for us so that we could simply show up and turn on the lights. The way to do that is with cheap (relatively) specialized robots.. Robots that dig, robots that weld, robots that fix other robots, robots that power other robots and ones that do surveying, scraping, boring, tunneling, cleaning and on and on. I think we're headed in the right direction, rapid prototyping of parts, better computers, better batteries and energy solutions and better robots like spirit than we could have ever dreamed of two decades ago.. If we sent 5 box cars worth of such equipment to mars it wouldn't really matter how long it took for them to build our habitat, it would get done. The problem isn't getting there in the near term, we could do it now if we had to. The problem will always be what to do once we arrive and if the infrastructure is already present when we do then it's one less massive hurdle to face. Imagine if the pilgrims had showed up to Plymouth rock and downtown Boston was already built? This won't be beyond our ability in the next 20-100 years, but we do need to keep a focus on the long term goal and that is to make one or both of these planets a destination worth going to.

As for Venus having a moon like ours, I'm not sure if it would make any difference or not and since it doesn't, then why even put that card in the deck?

 

[bdewoody]

Two questions that are unrelated, but for fun's sake..


As for Venus having a moon like ours, I'm not sure if it would make any difference or not and since it doesn't, then why even put that card in the deck?

It's kinda like my Dad always said. If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass every time they jumped. Venus is what it is and I don'rt see the point in speculating about what we would do if it was an earth twin.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Venus is Earth's twin; only it's her evil sister from Hell.

I've read that had Venus been in an orbit further out, it would have evolved along the same lines as Earth, with oceans and all. Earth and Venus actually have roughly the same amount of carbon. But most of the carbon on Earth is sequestered by life over billions of years in the form of carbonate rocks.

The rest was transformed into coal and oil or stored in the living organisms themselves, including the trees.

 

[MeteorWayne]

The other factor is that because of secular resonances, Venus' rotation was slowed and flipped. With the slower rotation rate, the possibility of plate tectonics disappeared, and it became a large rock that burps evey one in a while, but does not continuously recycle it's crsut as earth does. Without that, it became the Hades it is.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

Yep. Something fairly large whacked Venus pretty hard. Its retro-grade rotation on its axis, relative to the other planets, says something about that collision.

Incidentally, many speculate now that Mercury is the remnant core of a much larger world that was too close to the sun, and all its outer layers were broiled away. Could Mercury be a former "Roaster" like the exo-Jovians we've been finding whipping around real close to their parent stars?

 

[EarthlingX]

A couple of links to Venus facts and pictures for a bit of background :

Wiki : Venus ( the best place to start )

ESA : Venus Express


Collection of articles from http://www.universetoday.com : Venus


and what to do with these facts :
Wiki : Colonization of Venus

 

[EarthlingX]

Digging through the redundant info above, i came over this :

from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Likewise, believing Venus to be two bodies, the Ancient Greeks called the morning star Φωσφόρος, Phosphoros (Latinized Phosphorus), the "Bringer of Light" or Ἐωσφόρος, Eosphoros (Latinized Eosphorus), the "Bringer of Dawn".

Hm.. bringer of light ? Light bearer ?
from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Lucifer is a Latin word (from the words lucem ferre), literally meaning "light-bearer", which in that language is used as a name for the dawn appearance of the planet Venus, heralding daylight.

Slightly skewing away from the topic - bringer of fire :
from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus

 

[ZenGalacticore]

"Lucifer" would've been a better name for Venus, perhaps.

Although, as any experienced man knows, a pretty face doesn't mean a pretty heart. The Goddess of Love is really a ***** from Hell! :lol:

 

[EarthlingX]

"Lucifer" would've been a better name for Venus, perhaps.

Although, as any experienced man knows, a pretty face doesn't mean a pretty heart. The Goddess of Love is really a ***** from Hell! :lol:

How life-like :lol:

 

[BenS1985]

Here is a thought for 'ya -

If Venus was different - more Earthlike, who is to say that it wouldn't of developed sentient life as well. Maybe we wouldn't want to land there for other reasons. Just because it is a hellhole now doesn't mean that it may have been a hellhole even if it was more Earthlike, with mean, hardy, dastardly lifeforms. Ha ha.

There is no way to precieve what things would have been like 'if' 'if' 'if. If you really want to know what Venus would have been like 'if', wait until we find another Exo with the same type of composition without the runaway effects that Venus faces....Then we'll know what really would have been.

As others have said, Venus is actually the best world we have access to in this solar system. At 1 atmosphere, the temperature is exactly like ours, as well as air pressure. Due to atmospheric composition, our 'air' floats, which would make any sort of module we put there, float. Remember Cloud City from Star Wars? Venus is not far away from it. The only caveats would be the 'Virga' acid rain which is present at that level. If there was a way to scrub the chlorine and sulfuric acid from the clouds (and replace it with oxygen), one could assume that it would be possible for regular humans to work outside without the need of extensive life support equipment - maybe just a 'breather' mask to convert Co2 into O2.

 

[ExplorerAtHeart]

This is what venus could look like terraformed.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Of course there's not anough water to make oceans, especially at a few hudred degrees C :shock:

 

[EarthlingX]

Of course there's not anough water to make oceans, especially at a few hudred degrees C :shock:

Unless there are molten lead oceans, in which i would not recommend swimming to a casual tourist. It would probably be a very short pleasure and i doubt there is enough lead on the Venus surface, but at least hot is enough.

It might be very unscientific, perhaps even slightly unorthodox, but i find molten lead oceans, with acid rains beating them in the high pressure atmosphere, kinda romantic .. :roll: .. Yes, i will see a doctor .. not

Wiki : Lead
Melting point 600.61 K, 327.46 °C, 621.43 °F