Inside Jupiter.

pioneer0333 · Nov 18, 2005

I am stuck with the question. Does the gas in the interior of Jupiter become solid under all that pressure? This might be a bit crazy to think, but i think the gas at the center does at a certain point of pressure start to solidify some what. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

newtonian · Nov 18, 2005

Pioneer0333 - crazyeddie's post is good. To clarifty and add detail: The hydrogen does become metallic, but not before becoming liquid hydrogen about 1,000 km under the gaseous atmosphere of Jupiter. Imagine an ocean of liquid hydrogen 25,000 km deep! "At a depth of some 25,000km, where the pressure is about 3 million Earth-atmospheres, hydrogen molecules are broken down, their electrons moving around and conducting heat and electrical currents easily..... The bulk of Jupiter's interior consists of liquid metallic hydrogen." - "The World of Science," 1991, volume 7, page 34. This liquid metalic hydrogen acts like a dynamo generating Jupiter's powerful magnetic field. Jupiter's rapid rotation also helps. Apparently, this metallic hydrogen is not solid - but there is a solid core, rocky-metallic, with a mass of about 10-30 earth masses. - Ibid., p. 34

nevers · Nov 18, 2005

And all this time I thought that the center of Jupiter was where all the miss-matched socks in the world ended up - <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> - great question and answers guys!

jatslo · Nov 19, 2005

Helium Core; metallic hydrogen mantel

contracommando · Nov 19, 2005

Question: “How many licks does it take to get to the center?”

newtonian · Nov 19, 2005

Brad (Nevers) - Hi! How are you? Seriously, I do not know where all the mismatched socks go???? Have we considered langoliers (sp?)? On Jupiters core, this is, of course, educated guess since we do not have probes that have entered the core to sample it. We have a better handle on Earth's core. Have we done any seismic, or similar, observations to confirm core properties for Jupiter?

newtonian · Nov 19, 2005

jatslo - where did you get Helium core from? I agree it is likely there is some Helium - your model is similar to a star - red giant type. It is true that Jupiter, like Saturn, emits twice as much heat as it receives - mechanism unknown but variant models exist. I doubt even slow localized hydrogen fusion into Helium though - not hot enough near core according to popular models. There could, of course, be local hot spots - but that hot? Be that as it may, Jupiter's atmosphere is about 90% hydrogen and 10% helium. If the atmosphere and lower layers were calm, one would expect the Helium to sink towards the core, as it is heavier than Hydrogen. However, Jupiter's atmosphere is far from calm! And inner layers also have motion proven by the resulting strong magnetic field of Jupiter. So - mixing is likely. However, I am not rejecting as out of hand the possibility of a buildup of Helium near Jupiter's core. The same could be said for our sun, btw. Popular models have zero mixing between our sun's core and outer hydrogen rich layers. However evidence for solar magnetic fields floating from core to surface do argue for mixing. Jupiter's magnetic field and violent atmospheric motion also argue for mixing. Not anywhere near earth's oceans stirring time of about 1,000 years but more on the order of a mixing time of 10 billion years for our sun, and perhaps 100 million years for Jupiter. Just a guess, btw.

steve01 · Nov 21, 2005

So at what "layer" did comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 detonate at?

telfrow · Nov 21, 2005

It appears that it may already now be possible to determine the approximate depth of the penetration by the fragments into the atmosphere. The observations of large amounts of NH3 and relatively little H2O in some of the plumes (see below) indicate that the most energetic explosions most likely took place between the second (assumed to contain NH4SH aerosol) and the third (H2O) cloud layers. http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/sl9/news35.html (Older article. The conclusions may have changed.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild. - Tennyson </div>

jatslo · Nov 21, 2005

Helium is fused hydrogen.

newtonian · Nov 23, 2005

jatslo - Yes - but where was hydrogen fused into helium? Some of the helium, probably most, was fused at the big bang! [Or other hot origin model] Still more helium was fused by older stars and spewed into space by Novae and supernovae. I doubt much helium has been fused within Jupiter. Feel free to disagree - but why?

jatslo · Nov 23, 2005

(He) is fused in the core; beneath the starry sky, or, I mean, beneath the metallic hydrogen liquid/solid mantel. Sorry I do not have time to run through the layers, but please point out any and all facts that I am ignoring so that I can update my star models. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

unlearningthemistakes · Nov 24, 2005

Why build one when you can build two at twice the price? the movie Contact? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> pain is inevitablesuffering is optional </div>

nexium · Dec 9, 2005

We don't know what is inside Jupiter, so there are several theories and hypothesis. The outer cloud layers are warmer than expected considering the distance from the Sun. Someone calculated (they made numerous assuptions) the center temperature at 25,000 degrees, so we would expect gas, but the pressure calculated indicates solid whatever it is made of. To me it seems reasonable that elements with high atomic weight would tend to sink to the center. If this is 1% of the volume of Jupiter, that would be about 1/5 of the diameter of Jupiter and perhaps 10% of the total mass, if my arithmetic is correct. We expect that some mixing of light elements to the center may occur so there may be some metalic hydrogen, but my guess is less than half. Do we have compounds even at 25,000 degrees at the pressure of Jupiter's center? Neil

neutron_star69 · Dec 9, 2005

hey contact was a great movie(thumbs up)

trisco · Dec 9, 2005

wouldnt jupiter turn into a star if the hydrogen fused? sorry if the question is way off, im not very educated on the subject.

rodrunner79 · Dec 9, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />about 80 times more massive before it could be a star<hr /></blockquote> How do you know it has to be that many times massive, what if it only needs to be 40, 50, or 60 times... Is there like a minimum mass that an object must meet to qualify as a star? If so, what is that mass? And, how sure are we?

neutron_star69 · Dec 10, 2005

i agree, couldnt jupiter already be a star?

CalliArcale · Dec 10, 2005

Basically, a star is defined as an object sufficiently massive that the heat and pressure produced by its own gravitational force is sufficient to sustain a fusion reaction. Fusion is well enough understood that scientists now have equations that will tell them how much heat and pressure are needed to cause spontaneous nuclear fusion. Gravity is also very well understood, to the point where they can calculate how much heat Jupiter's gravitational contraction can produce. Alas, it's just not enough for spontaneous fusion. Jupiter would have to be more massive in order for that to happen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

neutron_star69 · Dec 11, 2005

couldnt jupiter explode just like a star. I mean anything can explode right?

vogon13 · Dec 11, 2005

Roseanne has a better chance of exploding . . . . . <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

telfrow · Dec 11, 2005

<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> "And finally, monsieur, a wafer-thin mint...." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild. - Tennyson </div>

vogon13 · Dec 11, 2005

And because we put Monsiuers meal in a bucket, does not mean we will skimp on any of the dishes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

neutron_star69 · Dec 11, 2005

trisco · Dec 11, 2005

Mass According to the accepted theories, the critical mass required in order to be able to commence Hydrogen burning (fusion) is 0.084 Mo (solar mass) so a Brown Dwarf must have a mass less than this (Jupiter and Saturn for comparison with this limit, are only 0.001 and 0.0003 solar masses). The lower limit is more difficult to pinpoint, but a Brown Dwarf is usually regarded as having a mass between 10 Mj and 84 Mj. Central Temperature By definition, the central temperature must be less than 3 million degrees, as that is the critical temperature required for substantial nuclear reactions to take place. The temperature is dependent on the mass, and will be lower for lower mass objects. Surface temperature The temperature of the outermost part of a Brown Dwarf is expected to be around 1000 K, though this will of course depend on its age. It will cool down as it get older. Nuclear fusion may take place at the beginning of its life, but this cannot be sustained very long. Mass of the Sun: Mo = 2 x 10^30 Kg = 1000 Mj Mass of Jupiter: Mj = 2 x 10^27 Kg = 0.001 Mo Critical mass for hydrogen burning: 84 Mj

Inside Jupiter.

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