Interstellar Pioneers Facing Termination

najab · Mar 10, 2005

A little over 13 hours out from Sol, a veteran of the first space age - Voyager 1 - is working quietly in the depths of space as it travels away from our Sun at 17.163 kilometers per second. But now, NASA has told scientists working on these and other older missions that their missions may be terminated in October to save money, reports Nature. The decision - which NASA officials say is not yet final - has angered space scientists, who are calling calling the moves penny-wise and pound-foolish, and that it is being done without a usual formal science review. (Evil) SpaceDaily Link.

robotical · Mar 10, 2005

This would be an incredibly stupid move if they were to carry it out. With Voyager we have the chance to accomplish some significant science that we probably won't have another chance at for decades. The exploration program is not so important that we have to eliminate major science missions just to fund it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

mrmorris · Mar 10, 2005

I'm a space nut -- I don't like seeing any program cancelled. I do wonder what the 4.2 million/year is being spent on. Is this creative accounting, where NASA charges itself (and the program) 3.9 million a year for use of its deep space facilities and the remainder is salaries? If so --eliminating the program creates a largely 'imaginary' savings. If it's all salaries -- assuming a cost of 100K per person (salary, benefits, office space, etc.) then that's 42 people. Are that many truly needed for the amount of data trickling in from the Voyagers? Would a quarter of the people be able to handle the science work for a quarter the cost? HeckifIknow. What I know is that I don't know enough to know if NASA knows what it's doing.

najab · Mar 10, 2005

There's no way that $4.2 million out of a budget of $15 billion is going to make a difference one way or the other.

thalion · Mar 10, 2005

^ Ditto. I can't believe that of all the programs they decided to subtract a (relatively) measly $4.2 million from, that they picked Voyager and Ulysses, the latter probe which is still in good health IIRC. There are currently *no* firm plans for any other probes to explore the outer heliosphere; even the touted Interstellar probe is just an idea on paper right now, which may never get funded. But hey, we shouldn't expect too much from bureaucrats. We should know this: if they can kill Voyager when they both have possibly another 10-15 years of life--let alone Ulysses--they can do the same to our golden boy Cassini when "extended mission" time comes around, and axe it while it's still going strong, or even to the MSL if it makes the "mistake" of overstaying its primary mission welcome on Mars. But I digress... Whatever program they're saving by axing Voyager and Ulysses better give us the Midas touch. /

CalliArcale · Mar 10, 2005

ULYSSES??!?!?!!! What on God's green earth are they thinking? Voyager is bad enough, but at least its at a point where most of the instruments are no longer functioning, and where it is no longer capable of performing the kinds of observations it was originally meant to do. But Ulysses is in the prime of its life! Let's see, what else is in that list? Polar, Wind, Geotail, FAST -- four satellites that have contributed enormously to our understanding of the magnetosphere and to the Sun's effects on it. Their work is VITAL to accurate space weather predictions and to understanding the hazards of space so that future spacecraft can be less vulnerable to radiation-induced errors. Cancelling them is downright idiotic, and directly impacts the future of American satellites, including military ones. TRACE -- that one hasn't even been up all that long! TRACE is a fantastic spacecraft. Have you seen the magnificent images it produces? It has revolutionized our understanding of the sun, which also is vital to understanding space weather. That has major implications for communications technology. Actually, ALL of these spacecraft have contributed to better understanding of the Sun and space weather. More significantly, the synergy between them and other spacecraft not on the hitlist has given us a unique way of studying the Sun, the heliosphere, space weather, the Earth's magnetosphere, terrestrial auroras, and how this all interrelates. I actually think this is stupider than cancelling Hubble, because of the direct and immediate impacts on satellite and communications technology. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

vogon13 · Mar 10, 2005

Ulysses was originally planned to be two spacecraft making simultaneous observations of both north and south of sun. Guess which 'right royal &%$#@!' (still can't fathom why SDC obscenity software zaps that word in this context) in the Reagan administration messed up that one? His initials are David Stockman. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

mikejz · Mar 10, 2005

Forget Hubble--Lets saves these guys instead! Two thoughts: 1. I would gladly donate $100-$200 to keep voyager going. 2. I bet there are some over at JPL that would put in a little off the clock overtime to keep these missions alive--too bad government does not think that way.

shyningnight · Mar 10, 2005

Does this sound to anyone else (besides me) like the budget equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue? "Well! You want to cancel some of our "pet" projects... so if you want to save money, we'll just have to cut THIS and THIS and THIS!! HA! That'll show 'em! " I agree that it would be monumentally stupid to discontinue either project. (I know my next sentence is going to piss off some people...) I also think that there are a bunch of petulant children playing games with budgets... Paul F.

robotical · Mar 10, 2005

The marketplace would be very poor determination of their value. Such missions as the MERs and Casini would never have received funding if it was left up to the marketplace. The market is not interested in science missions; that is why the government is necessary. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

mrmorris · Mar 10, 2005

"...let those transmissions find a buyer in the marketplace..." Pure science rarely has commercial value. However, what I *could* see happening is the managers of these projects finding ways to slim their budgets. The administrators of long-term government-funded projects tend to defend the size of their budget tooth and nail... until faced with cancellation, at which point they often will miraculously find ways to do the majority of the work for a fraction of the price.

yurkin · Mar 10, 2005

Does anyone here have a subscription to Nature? http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050307/full/434125a.html I’d like to hear what’s going on before making an opinion. And I don’t entirely trust SpaceDaily to filter the information in that article accurately.

redgryphon · Mar 10, 2005

Here's the text of the Nature article. NASA's funding shortfall means journey's end for Voyager probes TONY REICHHARDT Mission to the edge of the Solar System may shut down in October to save cash. [WASHINGTON] NASA has told scientists working on some of the agency's longest-running space missions — including the twin Voyagers now speeding towards the edge of the Solar System — that they may have to shut down operations in October to save money. The decision — which NASA officials say is not yet final — has angered scientists, who call it penny-wise and pound-foolish, and say that it is being made without the usual formal review by the science community. The agency's Earth–Sun System division originally planned to spend $74 million next year to operate spacecraft that study the Sun's environment and to pay for data analysis. But the budget has since been cut to $53 million, as NASA struggles to fund all of its planned projects. Faced with the shortfall, division officials last month informed the managers of seven missions that are past their prime lifetime — Voyager, Ulysses, Polar, Wind, Geotail, FAST (Fast Auroral SnapshoT) and TRACE (Transition Region and Coronal Explorer) — that there is no money to keep them operating after the current fiscal year ends in October. Launched in 1977, Voyagers 1 and 2 are now more than 14 billion and 11 billion kilometres from Earth, respectively. Having visited all the outer planets except Pluto, they are on their final quest — to locate the shifting boundary between the Sun's domain and the realm where interstellar space begins. Ground antennas are in daily contact with the spacecraft, which are expected to last until about 2020 before giving out. The Voyagers cost NASA about $4.2 million a year for operations and data analysis. To afford new projects, NASA occasionally has to turn off spacecraft that are still working but that have exceeded their li

douglas_clark · Mar 10, 2005

redgryphon, Just a general reply to everyone. Is not the apparent Doppler shift anomolies of Voyager sufficient oftheir own right to justify the continuation of this mission? Is this not, of itself worth investigating? douglas

mrmorris · Mar 10, 2005

"...the apparent Doppler shift anomolies of Voyager ..." It's the Pioneer craft that generated that particular set of (potential) anomolies. They've already been shut down as a program. The analysis you speak of was generated based on historical positioning data. My understanding is that the positions of the Voyager craft can't be used to generate corroborating information because of differences in the spacecraft stabilization methods.

vogon13 · Mar 10, 2005

Think you are referring to the tracking anomalies Anderson has been studying. His data came from the Pioneer 10 and 11 craft. Since they are spin stabilized (unlike Voyager) their tracking data is not confused by thruster firings to maintain craft attitude. I feel solar wind study as Voyager craft approach limits of suns' influence and the actual start of the interstellar environment is more than sufficient justification to maintain both Voyagers till they naturally expire. An additional factor in their favor is as a test bed for spacecraft longevity. When new spacecraft are in the design phase, it is standard practice to review existing 'state of the art' and evaluate new spacecraft design to lessons learned from prior attempts. This is a key factor in the 'institutional memory' that pays such high dividends in new successful missions. We need to know just how long the Voyagers will last for real and practical reasons. I'm about to start in on another long tirade on that crappy antenna on Galileo, but will spare you all for the time being. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

CalliArcale · Mar 10, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />They've already been shut down as a program.<hr /></blockquote> Just to clarify, NASA didn't cancel them to save money. They actually stopped responding to Earth. They ran that program right up until the bitter end. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

vogon13 · Mar 10, 2005

I really do so enjoy seeing such similar answers pop up simultaneously here. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

crossovermaniac · Mar 11, 2005

I don't think NASA's planning on killing its space probe budget. More likely, this is all a political ploy to get more money for FYI 2006. Or I could be wrong. But I'm cynical enough to believe it.

yurkin · Mar 11, 2005

This is terrible! Much worse then the cancelled Hubble mission. Is there some petition we can sign or something?

spacester · Mar 11, 2005

Just get ahold of the POTUS, he's the champion of space flight, I'm sure he'll make it all better. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

yurkin · Mar 11, 2005

I'll be sure to give him a call. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

Interstellar Pioneers Facing Termination

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