is escape possible

[doc_harra]

Is it possible for a intelligent life form, To escape the big crunch and next big bang ? if there is one.

 

[harmonicaman]

It looks like the universe will continue to expand forever; and life won't be able to survive that either...

 

[finaldeathh]

I think the Universe was made for life. Why else would life find very way to survive?

 

[alokmohan]

We dont know if big crunch is at all possibe,whether intelligent life exist else where etc etc .So the discussion is speculative.However it is timekiller.

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">I think the Universe was made for life. Why else would life find very way to survive?<br /><br /><font color="white">Well if life wasn't possibe we wouldn't be here to ponder the question. I think every where intelegent life is the same argument will be used.</font></font>

 

[newtonian]

nacnud - But that is oversimplifying the argument.<br /><br />The universe is fine tuned for life - both the expansion rate and the ratios of the 4 forces of physics and the laws and properties of the universe in general.<br /><br />Those who believe life cannot survive fail to note how the universe got this way in the first place.<br /><br />Simple chance and thermodynamics does not explain the laws and properties that came out of the big bang.<br /><br />If you build a home and than do nothing entropy will certainly cause it to turn to dust.<br /><br />However, you can also intelligently repair it and sustain it.<br /><br />Certainly our Creator can do the same.<br /><br />Likely we will also have to work at it rather than just sit back and watch.<br /><br />Certainly a good start for mankind would be to stop ruining this earth!

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Simple chance and thermodynamics does not explain the laws and properties that came out of the big bang<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Actually, they explain it just as well as they would explain every other possible random outcome. That the existing outcome occured, and gave rise to us, is of course pleasing to our minds. But it doesn't neccesarily mean anything.<br /><br />Put another way....<br /><br />Is this universe like this so it could give rise to us? (The anthropic principle.)<br /><br />Or are we the way we are simply because the universe gave rise to us, constraining the forms we could have taken?<br /><br />I am inclined towards the latter, to be honest, although I do believe God created us and endowed us with souls. Why assume He specifically chose and arranged for this particular shape for us? Would He have been just as happy with another form? Quite possibly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[siarad]

"God created man in His own image.... God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good." Gen 1:27, 31

 

[doc_harra]

Please do not get me wrong, if there is a big crunch then another big bang if there was one in first place, I do believe life can/would start again, but form observations and reason we can determine that life on our own planet is finite and sustainable for only so long, if humanity wants to out last the sustainable period we will surley have to look else where for survival, what i am trying to draw attention to is, If life on our planet is finite could this also be possible for our universe, and if we need to move from our own planet eventually due to it not being able to sustain life as we know it, should we not aim to do the same if the universe is also finite, If possible ? otherwise life would start from the beginning again and all learnt before shall disappear until learnt again, possibly only to be lost again.

 

[doc_harra]

Please do not get me wrong, if there is a big crunch then another big bang if there was one in first place, I do believe life can/would start again, but form observations and reason we can determine that life on our own planet is finite and sustainable for only so long, if humanity wants to out last the sustainable period we will surley have to look else where for survival, what i am trying to draw attention to is, If life on our planet is finite could this also be possible for our universe, and if we need to move from our own planet eventually due to it not being able to sustain life as we know it, should we not aim to do the same if the universe is also finite, If possible ? otherwise life would start from the beginning again and all learnt before shall disappear until learnt again, possibly only to be lost again.

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>God created man in His own image<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />But how specifically is that meant? Does it mean we are formed of matter? That we are ensouled? That God has bad knees too? <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[doc_harra]

I hope im not starting a new subject, But i would like to know if the universe is expanding would it be easier to go with the flow and travel to the end of matter (first matter propelled from the centre of the universe) than it is to travel to the origin of the universe ? (traveling against the expansion).

 

[abhinavkumar_iitr05]

There can be the two fate of our universe.<br /><br />The first can be one in which we have to start our return journey all over once again.This means that all the events of the universe will start all over once again.In this case what will actually happen will be that the effect of force of Gravitation will come into the picture before the time when the speed of seperation will achieve the speed of light.<br /><br />We all know that the velocity of seperation is directly proportional to the seperation between the two stars,glaxy,or anything else in the universe as governed by the Hubble's Law.If the velocity of seperation becomes equal to c,then the universe will go on expanding forever.<br /><br />Now coming on to your question,we have seen the fate of our universe in either of the way.So as I think in any of the fate the survival of the living creature will be not possible.Thus there is no question of our survival in the future.Ofcourse that time will come after a long time,but it will come.

 

[jatslo]

I talked about escaping this event through time dilation before, so yes, it is possible.

 

[doc_harra]

It looks like the universe will continue to expand forever; and life won't be able to survive that either... <br />would an explosion in space not also latter cause an implosion ? just like to know

 

[jatslo]

Makes good sense to me, when do we get started?

 

[jatslo]

Implosion precedes explosion in most cases, and I think all cases, but that is another story.

 

[doc_harra]

I can imagine explosions in space hard with out an atmosphere, And wonder what would rush to fill the combusted gas, And do nuclear explosion create a suction wave arfter going off ?

 

[doc_harra]

Makes good sense to me, when do we get started? Hopefully if need be we all ready have, more than likely wont be going in person, But hopefully with in my life time get to be poking around some asteroid or planet via remote technology looking for more info to aid the cause

 

[jatslo]

Nuclear detonations implode, or suck everything into a mushroom cloud, before exploding; a two-step model. Stars work pretty much the same way. I imagine there are reflection and refraction processes with detonations close to the ground, which are likely responsible for the mushroom cloud. For example, a detonation 30-miles up might only give a lot of people a sun burn with no cloud at all.<br /><br />There was a article, and paper published recently involving supernova, and they confirmed the two-step model; implosion followed by explosion, and there was some additional activity with the explosion striking matter orbiting the failed star. <br /><br />My goodness, I made lots of typos.

 

[jatslo]

No doubt they can figure it out, but history will show that there may not be time left to acieve this task.

 

[doc_harra]

but like a match burning in a glass may it not also cause some suction ? being that these explosions take place in 0 atmosphere, I do not know anything about explosions in space, Only feel they may be different than in an atmosphere, Maybe more like in a glass ?

 

[newtonian]

Calli - Hi!<br /><br />Well, I don't ascribe to philosophic principles like the anthropic principles - I prefer actual observations and the scientific (not philosophic) principle of cause and effect.<br /><br />Discussing philosophy ignores the need for scientific analysis of effects and causes.<br /><br />Thermodynamics does not explain the laws and properties that came out of the big bang - that was my statement as you note.<br /><br />However, in your response you do not address thermodynamics.<br /><br />Consider, for example, those who believe our universe will undergo heat death by entropy - note that entropy is part of the second law of thermodynamics.<br /><br />Now extrapolate back and ask scientifically why our universe began with such an opposite state to what straightforward thermodynamics would cause: i.e. heat death.<br /><br />Entropy only goes one way unless acted on by ...<br /><br />I'll let you finish the sentence and apply it to the origin of our universe.

 

[aorton27]

"I can imagine explosions in space hard with out an atmosphere, And wonder what would rush to fill the combusted gas, And do nuclear explosion create a suction wave arfter going off ?"<br /><br />Nothing fills the void as there is no void to fill. Because the explosion seperates the mass that was there and was causing the gravity then gravity will be instantly removed and the fabric of space will straighten itself out like when you jump off a trampoline. Any remaining material will be slingshot out of the current area, again, like debris on a trampoline when the weight is removed in microseconds.<br /><br />But during that explosion if there there remains a core (ie. neutron star) then the gravity will still exist but there will be a differnce and the smaller, less dense particles will be shot away and the nuetron core will remain in the area.<br />

 

[newtonian]

doc_harra - Point well taken.<br /><br />If our existence is just chance than we could by chance destroy ourselves, or life on earth could end, or life in our universe could end, etc.<br /><br />Note that I believe in God, and in intelligent design, and in these statements:<br /><br />(Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.<br /><br />(Revelation 21:3-4) 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”<br /><br />Simply, escape is possible if we work in harnony with the intelligent design. <br /><br />Simply stated: we should not fight nature but live in harmony with nature.<br /><br />Now, this does not mean I believe there will be no potentially catastrophic events in the heavens and on the earth:<br /><br />(Hebrews 1:10-12) 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.”<br /><br />Note that the heavens and earth will 'perish" yet above we will live forever upon the earth. This is not a contradiction.<br /><br />NW footnote on "perish": Lit., “will destroy themselves.”<br /><br />The key is that heaven and earth will actually still exist but, as the context state: will be "changed." <br /><br />The changes will be so drastic that the word "perish" is appropriate.<br /><br />Yet some of us will survive. <br /><br />I cannot answer in detail how we can survive th