Iss oxygen generator fails again

[rubicondsrv]

why are these oxygen generators so prone to failure and if this ios a common problem why were more not bult to be sent as replacements? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[SpaceKiwi]

There's no doubt that, along with the gyros, the Elektron generator is the biggest pain in the proverbial on the ISS. And, it seems to be the closest thing to black magic that is employed to try to coax it back to life each time.<br /><br />Forget about launch vehicles, and bone and muscle atrophy. I can't see anybody going anywhere on a long duration mission until they can find a reliable oxygen generator. Aside from that elderly Russian scientist who seemed to be the world's only repository of specialist info on the Elektron, has anyone moved down the path towards a similar, albeit reliable and fixable, system? <br /><br />Surely someone in the NASA organisation is having a lash at trying to develop an Elektron-like system? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[tuckerfan]

Anybody know if they're onboard computer is named HAL? 'Coz if it is, I think we know why everything's going wrong up there.

 

[mikejz]

The oxygen generator is just takes waste water breaks it apart to make oxygen.<br /><br />The thing is that the exact thing is done in just about every single high school science class---what is the big deal?

 

[najab]

><i>The thing is that the exact thing is done in just about every single high school science class---what is the big deal?</i><p>Gravity. High schools' got it, space stations don't.<p>You'd be amazed what a difference that makes, as I understand it, the problem with the Elektron system is in the gas separation system which is where the bubbles (which don't float to the top) are separated from the liquid. I think it isn't doing it's job properly, which is causing bubbles to form in places where bubbles ain't supposed to be.</p></p>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"You'd be amazed what a difference that makes..."</font><br /><br />I'm certainly amazed they couldn't develop a centrifuge that would allow for the removal of gas reliably. But then I've never developed a Zero-G electrolysis system that works even <b>part</b> of the time... so who am I to talk. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[najab]

The other difference between Elektron and a high-school science experiment is that the students don't usually have to <i>breathe</i> their results, they just get to make a test tube of hydrogen go pop. Pop would not be a good thing for the ISS crew to hear!

 

[halman]

Supposedly, NASA is working on a wastewater oxygen generator, but it is not expected to be ready for use until at least 2006. I am surprised that such a fundamental system to long-term life support has not been given higher priority. But NASA missions have always carried bottled oygen, so NASA has never had to worry about generating oxygen until now, and the Russian Elktron was supposedly a proven system, having been used on Mir for several years. We just recently found out that it was a finicky system, requiring a certain amount of adjustment before each unit was ready to fly, and that the only person who apparently knew the adjustment procedeures recently died.<br /><br />Unfortunately, supplying the ISS with oxygen for just two people would soak up a lot of the space on the supply ships if bottled oxygen were to be used exclusively. As I understood it, some replacemont parts were supposedly sent up at the last crew change, in the hopes of getting better reliabity out of the Elektron units. I guess that they have not helped. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[drwayne]

"and that the only person who apparently knew the adjustment procedeures recently died."<br /><br />Interesting.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

From what I've heard, documentation of your work is not a high priority in Russia. And in fact, it tends to be discouraged by the scarcity of work -- it is in your interests as an engineer to be irreplacable, and good documentation can make you replaceable. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

I'm sorry, Strannik. I was only repeating what I'd heard. Thank you for correcting my mistaken impression.<br /><br />I didn't mean to make it sound demeaning; just that a shrewd engineer would not make it too easy to replace them. I didn't realize engineers were in such high demand there; here in the US, it's not too difficult to replace an engineer.<br /><br />Not to get things offtopic, but if a project's current state is not reflected by the documentation, then somebody is not doing their job. And I have seen it happen too. Too many people blow off documentation, forgetting that their colleagues do not have the same intimacy with their work as they themselves do. I've been involved in fixing projects where that has been the case. In my experience, the best way to do that is not to get mad at the engineers for not documenting, but to assign a person to make sure the documentation happens and is kept current. The engineers are busy enough without having to waste time with any more paperwork than is absolutely neccesary. Additionally, it is the responsibility of program management and the lead engineers to make sure that the documentation is not excessive, nor cumbersome. It shouldn't be a pain in the hinder to keep it updated. If it is, that means something is wrong, in my opinion.<br /><br />But I'll get off my CM/DM soapbox now. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

I always though a good rule of thumb for documenting a process I was performing was to write documentation that is sufficient so that - if I was run over by a bus, someone else could do it.<br /><br />I am by nature somewhat contrarian - I have, in my career watched some folks take great pleasure in being viewed as a wizard - able to do things that other mere mortals could not. As a result, I tend to go the other way, and offer to train people on special things I do.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[teije]

What I find fascinating is, that this poor scientist who apparently was the only man that knew how to adjust the elektron, was able to do that job <i> on earth. </i><br />So we have a machine that's supposed to work only in zero gravity, where they have a lot of trouble getting it to work, and the only man who knew how to adjust it knew this only in circumstances where it wasn't supposed to operate.<br /><br />My admiration for such a magician has almost no limits.<br />Teije

 

[halman]

Actually, the dead engineer story is a coverup for a botched process during the manufacture. The defects were not discovered until too late, and the bad units were flown because there were no defect-free units in existance, and it takes several months to build a unit.<br /><br />The manufacturing process has been corrected, and new units are scheduled for completion in March. Temporary fixes made possible by knowledge of the defect in the manufacturing process will be applied until the new units can be shipped.<br /><br />(The above statement is complete fiction, although it could be true. And it makes more sense than the dead-engineer story.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[thinice]

<i>All Station environmental control and life support systems are operating well, including the Elektron oxygen generating unit</i><br /><br />...until the next failure.

 

[vogon13]

The technology involved sounds not too dissimilar to fuel cell. Recall it took NASA several years to get those things reliable enough for a <2 week mission. <br /><br /><br /><br />A klinky transporter is a scary thing to be betting your life on <br />Montgomery Scott <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[thinice]

The problem is that what supposed to be scientific work turns into permanent fitness, maintainance and repair.<br />