ISS What if?

[rogers_buck]

Assume that the Progress blows up and the Soyus simply fails in an irrepairable manner. What would the options for supplying the crew be before their 2 weeks rations ran out?<br />

 

[spacester]

Two options:<br /><br />Slim<br /><br />None <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

Chill out, sleep, and save those calories for later. There should still be plenty of water. Ration your food.

 

[najab]

Spacester forgot "non-existant".

 

[rogers_buck]

So, there is no launch system available to boost a care package to the ISS for recovery using the robotic arm that could be readied in time to save the astronauts? No Sealaunch, no Delta, no Atlas, no Arian, no Long March, no Soyuz? No ICBM reprogrammed and given a shroud full of snickers bars? That's pretty sad. <br /><br />I doubt that they would starve. There is a medical kit onboard and teleconferencing with renown surgeons. If it came down to starvation, they could start cutting off legs. This gruesom repast could buy a few weeks survival while rescue was prepared. In the old maritime tradition, the astronauts would likely draw straws.<br /><br />Is this really the best we can do in the 21st century?

 

[pathfinder_01]

The trouble isn’t getting it into orbit there are lots of rockets that could do that. The trouble is getting it aboard the ISS. Right now Progress, Soyuz, and the Shuttle are the only things that have the capability to dock with the ISS. ESA has another automated cargo ship in development. In order to approach the station you need a spacecraft to contain the care package and that spacecraft is what lacking. <br /><br />However on the bright side it could be far worse. If NASA had not partnered with the Russians and only relied upon the shuttle for serving then we would probably have abandoned the station long before now. <br />

 

[rogers_buck]

The Chinese space capsule has a compatible dockign port. But forget about docking, what if the food parcel was just brought close enough to grapel with the arm or by space walking astronauts. The cargo would only have to be manouvered close to the ISS.

 

[rogers_buck]

What would the contingency plan call for if the Soyuz was deemed to be broken on Dec. 28th?

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"close enough to grapel with the arm or by space walking astronauts"</font><br /><br />You're speaking of 'rendezvous' as opposed to docking. It's easier (and safer) than docking -- but not *that* much easier and safer. You still have a multi-ton object trying to maneuver within a few meters of the ISS. Even ships designed to do this can hit the station cnd cause considerable damage (as a Progress did to Mir).<br /><br />As to grappling such a package with the arm or via an EVA -- you're talking about hundreds of pounds of food/water. The arm is not designed for this type of operation, and astronauts are liable to get killed trying to bring it in even if you solved the rendezvous problem and got the package to the ISS without hitting it.<br /><br />Even if the astronauts/arm could catch it -- you run into the problem of packaging the food and water such that getting them into the airlock is feasible. They're not designed for something like this.<br /><br />Even if you solve all of the above -- where are you going to whistle up a booster in the next couple of weeks? I'm assuming that something as half-posteriored as is being suggested is intended as a rescue operation and you're not thinking of such a supply method as a regular/scheduled means of resupplying the station.

 

[najab]

><i>Could someone please explain to me why we don't have automated docking capability? </i><p>Because NASA has never deemed it necessary. When they have needed a docking capability, at least one of the vehicles has always been manned (Gemini-Agena, Apollo CSM-LM, ASTP, Shuttle-Mir, Shuttle-ISS).<p>><i>What does such a system consist of?</i><p>At its most simple, a range finder, alignment aids and software to control thruster firings.<p>><i>What technical hurdles would we have to leap over if we had to send something up?</i><p>Quite a few - the actual docking mechanism NASA has already, the range finder and alignment aids exist already. NASA would have to develop a synthetic vision system to make use of the aids and design and test the software to control the thruster firings. It's not the kind of thing that could be thrown together in a few weeks.</p></p></p></p></p>

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">As to grappling such a package with the arm or via an EVA -- you're talking about hundreds of pounds of food/water. The arm is not designed for this type of operation, and astronauts are liable to get killed trying to bring it in even if you solved the rendezvous problem and got the package to the ISS without hitting it. </font><br /><br />Yes it is. The ISS arm was supposed to be used exacly in this way to capture the Japanees resupply craft.

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"...to capture the Japanees resupply craft. "</font><br /><br />I had trouble believing this until I saw it in print. That's a flipping nightmare!

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Could someone please explain to me why we don't have automated docking capability?"</font><br /><br />As previous posters have mentioned, the US has not felt the need for this kind of capability. However, though I don't know what NASA has planned for docking, they <i><b>are</b></i> planning on flying an automated rendezvous demonstration test mission as soon as they get their act together, NET March 2, 2005. <br /><br />From the Marshall Space Flight Center website:<br /><br /><blockquote><p align="left"><font color="orange">"The Demonstration for Autonomous Rendezvous Technology, or DART, is a flight demonstrator vehicle designed to test technologies required to locate and rendezvous with other spacecraft. The DART mission is unique in that all of the operations will be autonomous - there will be no astronaut onboard at the controls, only computers programmed to perform functions. Developed by Orbital Sciences Corporation of Dulles, Va., the DART vehicle will be launched on a Pegasus rocket to test rendezvous, close proximity operations and its control between the vehicle and a stationary satellite in orbit. The DART mission provides a key step in establishing autonomous rendezvous capability for the United States."</font>/p></p></blockquote><br /><br />It seems likely that NASA will want to proceed to automated docking capability for the Moon/Mars program. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[para3]

Wow, such gloom and doom.<br /><br />Wonder if the astronauts have the Internet on their laptops on the ISS? <br />Wonder if they read the Spacedotcom message boards? <br />Wonder what they would think if they were reading all this gloom and doom right now? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>

 

[rogers_buck]

Let's start small. Were trying to prevent the Donor Party on Nasa TV, so we only have to compete with the calories in a leg and prevent them from having to drink the gray water.<br /><br />Could the Pegasus deliver a pizza and a six pack to that orbit? The Pegasus-XL 341kg to 741km, so could it orbit a pizza and a six pack to 360km ISS orbit? Shouldn't take much to turn around a Pegasus, for example.<br /><br />But, as pointed out, the orbital vehicle will have to have some manueverability to close in on the ISS. Would a "Star Wars" style kill vehicle with the gun powder and nails replaced with pizza and beer be the platform of choice?

 

[rogers_buck]

>> Wonder if the astronauts have the Internet on their laptops on the ISS?<br /><br />Now if you were on the ISS, would you really feel the need to come to space.com to dream about being on the ISS? Well, just in case, we had better come up with a plausible way to feed those boys in this double failure scenario before they start fighting over whose leg is first for the chop.

 

[kmarinas86]

Try Hair Soup first, it should be a good supply of protien - tho it'll depend on how much hair they have <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />