Kirk-era Klingons explained in upcoming Enterprise

Leovinus · Dec 20, 2004

Read this from Star Trek web site. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

grooble · Dec 20, 2004

CalliArcale · Dec 20, 2004

Ah, the magic of the retcon..... <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> "Retcon", for those not au fait with fannish lingo, is short for "retroactive continuity". It can be a noun (referring to an instance of retroactive continuity) or a verb (referring to the practise of applying said retroactive continuity). The term was originally devised to refer to fanfiction, which frequently performed retcons, but some franchises have gone on long enough that they've been able to do their own "canon" retcons. To retcon is to explain away some error made in the property's official canon, usually of continuity, although the term can also be applied to bad special effects, technical errors, and historical errors. For instance, Star Wars fans have suggested several retcons for Han Solo's claim that he made the Kessel Run in fifteen(?) parsecs. Obviously, the production team thought a parsec was a unit of time, but since it's really a unit of distance, fans have suggested that perhaps it means he acheived it in the shortest distance, although this is unlikely given that he uses it to bolster claims of his ship's speed. I've seen several retcons for the Klingon forehead bumps. Soon after the forehead bumps were introduced, fans tended to basically ignore them. The suspension of disbelief will accomplish a lot, really. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> And fans certainly understood the limitations of the original series. But over time, especially as Trek fandom grew, people started to retcon it. This new episode of "Enterprise" will render all of them obsolete, since TV episodes of a TV show always reign supreme in determining what is canon. But this is potentially dangerous. For years, there has been a sort of "understanding" between the owners of various properties (Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, MST3K, Babylon 5, etc) and their fandoms, particularily the fanfic writers. Each expects not to get sued by the o <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

cookie_thief · Dec 21, 2004

When I first saw the "new" Klingon in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, I just assumed they were of a different race. So I was a little perplexed when fans started raising a big stink about it.

little_star · Dec 21, 2004

So cool.

jcdenton · Dec 21, 2004

It's about time they explain this one. Worf was once about to explain it in one DS9 episode, but instead just claimed that Klingons don't reveal this secret to outsiders. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

rogers_buck · Dec 21, 2004

I like that word "retcon", not just for SciFi! They're gonna have to (sooner or later) come to terms with the pre-warp war betwixt the humans and romulins mentioned in that subarine-hunt-ish episode of the original. Remember the non-kilingon war bird that blasted the border outposts? "Jim, it's Spoc"?

mattblack · Dec 22, 2004

You may think this is a bit of a sob-story, but in the early 90's when Paramount was looking for story ideas for Star Trek: TNG, my friend Brett and I wrote and submitted 6 episode ideas through an intermediary (a friend of a friend) who offered to act as our agent if these stories were picked up by Paramount. We had the correct address and line to the then-story editor, Naren Shankar. But we were under no illusions; when those stories hit the mailbox (we're in New Zealand) we effectively told ourselves to forget them: Paramount must have a slush-pile of stuff. About a year later, I was was astonished to see in the episode "The Wounded" a plot only a bit similar to ours, but the name of the ship and Captain was the same: The U.S.S. Phoenix and Captain Edward Maxwell. Also, we had a Dyson sphere in one story with a Klingon bird of prey, piloted by Geordi, Data and Worf on a super-secret mission to spy on the Borg. But the Dyson sphere captures them and they crash. They put themselves in stasis to stretch out supplies and the Enterprise comes looking for them and effects a rescue. Those of you with encyclopedic knowledge of TNG episodes will notice that this bares a strong resemblance to the 6th Season Scotty episode "Relics". Brett and I sought some legal advice and were told that there wasn't enough evidence to get Paramount for plagiarism, that these story ideas can be common enough in space opera television. Not only that, there are such things as coincidences!! But the worst thing is an unfinished Trek novel I once made the mistake of pitching to 2 former TNG staffers: the idea I had was 2 Federation ships being thrown across to the galaxy's farside and having to fend for themselves. Sound familiar?? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America CAN Afford it!! LEO is a Prison -- It's time for a JAILBREAK!! </div>

drwayne · Dec 23, 2004

I have partially written a story that connects the Lost In Space/Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea/Star Trek Universes...but I don't think anyone will ever see it as it will probably never see the light of day. (No I didn't get Batman in there yet, give me time) <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

mattblack · Dec 23, 2004

In the mid-nineties I wrote a 45,000 word Star Trek- Star Wars crossover. If there was room, I'd post it here in installments!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America CAN Afford it!! LEO is a Prison -- It's time for a JAILBREAK!! </div>

Leovinus · Dec 23, 2004

I assume the crossover had time travel involved since Star Trek is future and Star Wars is long long ago in a galaxy far far away. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Leovinus · Dec 23, 2004

Remember the "planet-killer" in TOS which came from outside the galaxy? Maybe that was "Death Star version 1.0" and the one we saw in the original Star Wars was version 2.0. Then the tie-in works since the Doomsday Machine would have been built long ago and took a long time to travel between galaxies. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

drwayne · Dec 24, 2004

Could be, I am biased in that I have read a good Star Trek book in which the origin of the Doomsday Machine is explained - it was a prototype of a weapon that was to be used in a war between the Borg and the Presevers. And, there was another one - a more powerful one - that Picard had to deal with. Because its a book of course, it is not canonical, so you can ignore that at your leisure. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

drwayne · Dec 24, 2004

MY LIS/VBS/Star Trek cross over used the environmental impacts of Warp Drive (seen in one of the TNG episodes) to generate interest in other methods of propulsion - which led to interest in the Jupiter 2 hyperdrive. (Plans for which were lost in the 3rd world war - I have thought of tying that the Judgement Day) Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

thalion · Dec 24, 2004

I read some time ago--in the official "Star Trek Chronology", IIRC--that the Klingons originally used human-looking clones in their early dealings with the Federation. The "true" Klingons didn't come to light until the V'Ger emergency.

drwayne · Dec 24, 2004

The book to which I referred: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671741454/002-9381553-0368056?v=glance Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

CalliArcale · Dec 28, 2004

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />I read some time ago--in the official "Star Trek Chronology", IIRC--that the Klingons originally used human-looking clones in their early dealings with the Federation. The "true" Klingons didn't come to light until the V'Ger emergency.<hr /></blockquote> This brings up the question of "What is canon?" Most fans will perceive a sort of continuum -- the core TV series is the most canon, spin-offs are less canon, authorized books are less canon, unauthorized books are barely canon or non-canon, and fanfiction is never canon. Most owners of these properties will regard the TV series as canon, and anything else as "well, if it fits, great, but we may violate it eventually so don't think of it as canon". Of course, we can also run into the "Star Trek: TOS" versus "Star Trek: TNG" canon debates. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> If two episodes conflict one another, which one is canon? I think it's usually safer to say "the later one", but there are proponents of the other theory as well. On the fanfiction subject, I'm pleased to hear that so many other members have written crossovers. Crossovers are my main guilty pleasure. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I absolutely love a good crossover. Actually, I like good fanfiction in general, but crossovers are the best. There was a really good Star Trek/Dr Who crossover once called "Synchronicity". I wish I could find that one again. The archive where I first found it has gone the way of all flesh. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

drwayne · Dec 28, 2004

I *love* a good crossover. One that killed me by never happening in real life was the last epsiode of "Strange Luck" that they made, Chance's brother gives him the card of someone at the FBI he can trust - its Fox Mulder's card. Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

CalliArcale · Dec 29, 2004

Oh cool. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Of course, sometimes authorized crossovers suck more than the fanfic ones. I read one of the X-Men/Star Trek: TNG crossovers done by Marvel Comics. It sucked, and that's putting it mildly. The main problem was that they failed to find any real overriding reason for the crossover, or even a halfway decent point of crossover. Thus, it was patently obvious that the crossover was done purely for the sake of throwing the characters together. In fanfiction, this can get some very unkind names. "Fanwank" is my favorite, though it's rather rude. It means fanfiction created not to tell a story, but to satisfy some craving on the part of the author. Bad crossovers almost invariably fall into this category (often more kindly referred to as "insertion stories"). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Dec 29, 2004

Correct me if I am wrong: I thought the Klingons were an "engineered" race. The appearance of the "head ridges" and increased size were due to a genetic "time bomb" that occured species wide. The reasons for this were unclear as their benefactors have long since vanished. Of course, none of this has anything to do with TOS but I thought this idea was being worked into a storyline. It just never really made it to the screen. Anyone ever hear of something along these lines or is this something that I have invented. I confess, I mulled the idea over many times so it wouldn't surprise me if it is a figment of my imagination. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

redracer02 · Dec 29, 2004

I had heard that also about the engineered race. But I don't follow Star Trek close enough to know more. As for the Han Solo parsec thing. For those that don't know, the Kessel Run is a trade lane through a field of black holes, lots of them. Get too close and your a goner, unless of course your ship is fast enough to avoid the hazards and you can cut your distance down, but "cutting corners".

drwayne · Dec 30, 2004

Speaking of engineered race - in Shatner's books, the Klingons and Romulans got together and created a hybrid with Klingon/Roumulans with surgically introduced human tissues. Called the Chal, they were engineered to thrive after an anticpated war in the Galaxy. Kirk got married to one...Kirk is alive again in these books, reanimated shortly after his death with nanites by an Unholy Borg/Romulan alliance. Wayne (purveyor of late night, boring trivial) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything." Admiral Jackie Fisher </div>

mooware · Dec 30, 2004

I haven't heard of the Klingons being an "engineered" race. There was some talk of Kirk era Klingons being engineered to look more Terran. But, other than that nothing.

vogon13 · Jan 13, 2005

I seem to recall at the time Star Trek the Movie was released this topic was a minor controversy. My recollection is the studio explained the movie budget was large enough to allow actual Klingons to play the Klingon characters. Now with CGI, this casting technique is rarely used. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

mcbethcg · Jan 14, 2005

Of course, with enterprise there does not need to be much continuity with future episodes, and here is why: They changed the future. Alot. In a large number of episodes. They are probably in a different timeline than the original series. Remember that originally, in Enterprise, Future guy was from a future that had histories that coincided with the star trek cannon? And that in the future there would eventually be a war against the sphere builders, and that the Xindi would help? Future guy was there to prevent the Xindi from destroying the human race to make that eventual future possible? And then time was changed when the spheres were all destroyed. There will be no future war with the sperebuilders. Future guys future no longer exists. It is entirely likely that Kirks, Picards, and Janeways future does not exist, as well.

Kirk-era Klingons explained in upcoming Enterprise

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