Launch Facilities for CLV and SDHLV

[dawn_treader]

Hello. I'm a new member here, so please be gentle with me as I learn the ropes.<br /><br />How will LC-39 at KSC be reconfigured to accommodate the new generation of launch vehicles? Are they going to dedicate each pad to a specific vehicle, or will each pad be capable of launching either one?<br /><br />How much of the pad complex will they be able to reuse, if any? I understand from reading articles that while facilities such as the LSS are operational and adequate for current missions, the fact is that they are not in the best shape and approaching the end of their service lives.<br /><br />Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">The long term plan is still TBD, however the most favored concept for the heavy launcher (SDLV heavy) is a clean pad approach. Which means no Fixed or rotating service structure.<br /><br /><font color="white">I was hopeing that migh be the case, after reading moonport that approach seems to makes a lot of sense.</font></font>

 

[dawn_treader]

Shuttle_guy:<br /><br />FSS is what I meant. It's easy to get tripped up by all these acronyms!<br /><br />BTW, I also want to thank you for all the interesting and accurate information that you provide on this forum. I've been lurking here for a while and have come to look forward to your posts, not only for their "view from the inside", but for their obvious sound engineering background. You ground the speculation and flights of imagination in reality, and I really appreciate that!

 

[rybanis]

So that would mean scrapping the current structure and building from a clean start? As I recall, they kinda just chopped the top off of 39A for the shuttle... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nolirogari]

Many may think it odd that right after scrapping the last complete (although in pieces) LUT they will now have to turn around and make another one. It should be kept in mind that although many of us would have liked to see that last, whole, Apollo LUT as a monument- these things were never constructed to last forever. The fact that the FSS structures have remained in place so long is simply amazing and tribute to their continual up-keep. The gantrys of the space race have nearly all fallen, but were built for the race, and the race alone (ICBM, IRBM and Apollo) it was all about beating the Soviets. Much like World War II freighters- they were built for "the duration" of the effort. Once victory was had, they did not exist well standing idle. I've often seen it said that the recently scrapped LUT (which was used on Apollo 11 et.al.) was the "last" Apollo LUT. But two others remain, affixed to LC39 A and B. Those actual "last remains" will be scrapped following the shuttle retirement. Then brand new LUTs will grow upon the MLPs for the SDLV In-Line vehicles and The Stick. In the words of Apollo- "Babe, that'll be a great sight!" And a happy day. Fate willing, I wanna be there to see it happen, to see them roll out, and to see the new big stacks fly! I was in grade school in Michigan when all of that happened for Apollo and as a kid, like so many others, I missed seeing it and was left with nothing more than library books and an occasional 15 minute NASA PR blurb on pre-dawn TV. Now, we all have a second chance thanks to "The Vision" and you can bet I do not intend to miss it this time! <br /><br />And by the way- Shuttle-guy has it exactly right IMO, the fins ARE coming back on The Stick! Aerodynamically, it'll fly like a bat on crack without them. (Just my opinion)

 

[henryhallam]

<font color="yellow"> For the SDLV heavy launcher there would be no towers at the pad.</font><br /><br />None at all? How do the LOX and LH2 umbilicals attach?<br /><br />Merry Christmas to all.

 

[bpcooper]

There is an ATK graphichere that might give you an idea of the stick MLP:<br /><br />http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0512/08clv/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"And by the way- Shuttle-guy has it exactly right IMO, the fins ARE coming back on The Stick! Aerodynamically, it'll fly like a bat on crack without them. (Just my opinion)"<br /><br />With tail fins the CLV is going to resemble the old WWII bazooka rocket!

 

[nolirogari]

Hey... they flew true, didn't they. <br /><br />Of course my opinion is slanted because I just released a "The Stick" flying model kit... and it needs fins to fly. So if the real vehicle has no fins... well... mine will still have the fins- because it's fun and I hate model rockets with those glass fins.

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"I just released a "The Stick" flying model kit..."</font><br /><br />Do you have any pictures of your model that you can post? How big is it?<br /><br />I have a scale model of the CLV that I built (see this thread). Unfortunately, it is based on an earlier version so doesn't match the current version, but the point is that I have ran Rocksim simulations on the current design and Rocksim says it will fly without fins. And that's without any kind of active guidance system.<br /><br />Of course, it takes over a pound of nose weight and a G25 to get it over 400', but it flies. Adding nose weight might be impractical for a commercial scale model kit, but did you consider this possibility? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[nolirogari]

Let's not go too far OT, but here's your answer.<br /><br />All of my kits are 18mm here's an image of The Stick (I hope- it's my first try at a photo post) It is sized to my Space Shuttle kit and in a few weeks I'll have the SDLV In-Line Heavy model to make the set complete. It stands ~16.4 in. tall, the SRB tube is a T-20. Flies like a an arrow.

 

[nolirogari]

I'd talk more about all of my kits, but this string is about the SDLV launch equipment... such as the crawler, MLP and LUT... all of which I'll have models of! HA! How's that for promotion? Seriously, however, I think this is the most exciting time in spaceflight since 1963. Congress is finally pitching in some cash, Branson's touching spacecraft and turning them into gold, the political anti-space blowhards from the late 60s are mostly retired, the red dragon of China is threatening to have us sleep by the light of a communist moon (seems like most folks have forgotten that China IS a communist nation), and there's no Nixon to nix the entire program. This is a time to be positive! The VAB was constructed to stack giant boosters to go to the moon... it has been too empty for too long... it is high time that we fill all of the bays and make the doors go all the way up!