Lets not go to Mars or the Moon and just collect a few rocks

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willpittenger

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I have heard of many plans that have us just sending a small crew to Mars. Some science fiction movies and TV episodes used a capsule the size of Apollo. If all we do is go to Mars and collect a few rocks, we may not go back for centuries. We did that with Apollo and we are just talking about going back now. Even with President Bush's proposed plan to return to the moon, our first mission must be to begin setup of a base camp. Then -- and only then -- do we talk about science.<br /><br />With Mars, we must make the first trip capable of staying until the second group of astronauts/cosmonauts arrives. Even then, two or three of the first group should stay on until the third group arrives to provide experience and leadership. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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askold

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2 or 3 groups? Is that all? Some on this board think we should send the entire population of the US to the moon in case the Iranians restart their nuclear enrichment program.<br /><br />Forget about the science missions. We need a second home.
 
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gunsandrockets

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"If all we do is go to Mars and collect a few rocks, we may not go back for centuries. We did that with Apollo and we are just talking about going back now."<br /><br />The moon-race was both a blessing and a curse. The race got humans to the moon much sooner than many thought it could happen. I believe Arthur C. Clarke believed during the 1950's that a moon trip wouldn't take place before 1975 and the mission would require nuclear propulsion. On the other hand, as you've noted, all the desire to continue manned exploration drained out of American politics once the moon was reached.<br /><br />But cheer up. A sustained manned exploration effort isn't really a question of inadequate resources. Since the end of Apollo, NASA has spent quite a bit of money and flown dozens and dozens of manned missions. Clearly the will is there to spend billions every year over a period of decades in support of manned spaceflight. The only problem, of course, is that those expenditures since Apollo have only sent men as far as low-Earth-orbit.<br /><br />All NASA has to do is simply redirect the same level of resources it has already sustained for years into a different direction, into deep space.
 
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mattblack

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There'll be a few rocks collected, sure. But to say that's all that happens or would happen in manned Moon and Mars missions is an old, cliched and forgive me; ignorant expectation. Rocks and regolith alone can cover geology, biology, chemistry, physics etc. But in any planet's environmental setting, especially Mars and Titan, you could conduct nearly every discipline known to science. 'Anti-spacers' often use the "just rocks" argument to attack space spending. They are the 'BAD GUYS'.<br /><br />We are the 'GOOD GUYS'. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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john_316

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You tell them Matt!!!!<br /><br />Um lets see from my perspective what we can also do while we are there....<br /><br />1) Start working on becoming independent of the Earth for insitu resources after the initial get there and set up shop phase.<br />2) Mining along with the sciences so that ores can be studied and then decided on what is the best approach at extracting the minerals from the rock<br />3) Smelters and gardens (yup both) smelt ores to recover the metals we need for construction. the construction of greenhouses for introduction of lifegiving plants for food and such as well.<br />4) Habitant extention and product creation (the begining of planet made materials just like on earth. (pottery the hole 9 yards).<br />5) Medical sciences as how our bodies can adapt to the lower gravities<br />6) and the list goes on and on.... <br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />
 
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mattblack

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What he said: It's all good and true! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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qso1

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The will is not quite there, at least on the Apollo program scale. We did fly manned missions after Apollo via the shuttle, spacelab, and now ISS. However, NASAs budget after Apollo dropped by roughly 50%. Pre 1974 the NASA budget peaked out at around 4% GDP. After 1974 the budget has and still is roughly 1% GDP. The shuttle budget proposed under the Nixon Administration was capped at $5.5 billion dollars though this later grew as a result of early development problems.<br /><br />Also, ISS barely got approved because of budget concerns. In 1993, it missed being cancelled by one vote and the Clinton Administration in an effort to avoid cancellation the next year, brought in the Russians.<br /><br />If current estimates on doing the current lunar Mars programs are correct, I suspect those programs will run into more difficulty, especially once GWB is out of office.<br /><br />As it is, the requirement for methane propellant has already been dropped from the lunar program vehicles. The methane propellant requirement was driven by eventual use in the Mars program vehicles. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>
 
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pirx_the_pilot

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Well don't worry. We're not goin to Mars. Not under the first Bush. Not under Clinton. Not under this Bush. Not under the next Bush.<br /><br />We will be very very lucky if we just make it back to the moon. Seriously. And if China gives up on the moon too early we won't even get that far.<br /><br />You gotta ask yourself "Why are we really in space"?
 
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kdavis007

Guest
Fine.. Lets send humans back to the moon to build a moon base and go to Mars to start a Martian colony....
 
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kdavis007

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I consider the anti-human in space crowd many things:<br />1. Cowards<br />2. Elitist Snobs<br />3. Just as bad as anti space crowd..
 
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mattblack

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That's right, those things didn't happen under those Presidents, though Bush Snr. gave it a good try. This try under Bush Jnr. is better conceived and may actually work, but NONE of this stuff, or DREAM if you like will work with negativity and fatalism. Do we want our children and grandchildren to remember this era as having nothing better to offer than profane & banal popular culture, wars and terrorism, and lots of electronic gadgetry for kids?<br /><br />This is our chance to contribute to a rising up from Earth, even for just a few of us. But it wont happen if we allow the forces of negativity and especially anti(human)-space to prevail. With the creation of the VSE and other initiatives, we "space geeks" have won a battle. But the 'war', if you like, goes on... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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kdavis007

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Plus things don't happen over night it takes time. We should have never stopped going to the moon. We should have continued on.
 
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mattblack

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>>We should have never stopped going to the moon. We should have continued on.<<<br /><br />Absolutely. And we'd probably be discussing whether it was worth it to complete the behind-schedule International Marsbase with our outdated Mars Shuttle, or whether we should just move on to the Asteroid belt and that very intriguing moon of Saturn; Titan.<br /><br />Part of me wouldn't have minded one little bit living in that hypothetical world!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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drwayne

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I have mumbled this before, but I really think that the true exploration, and lareg scale utilization of space requires investment and development of infrastructure that will need to occur over LONG time periods - decades, even, dare I say it, centuries.<br /><br />This is difficult when societies think in terms bordered by a decade or two at most, and the political process can't remember too much past tommorrow.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>
 
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JonClarke

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No rock can ever be described as "just". Every rock:<br /><br />Contains clues to the history of the planet and the solar system<br /><br />May contain evidence for past or present life (on Mars)<br /><br />Provide pointers to resources of minerals, volatiles, construction materials, sites for station construction.<br /><br />Rocks are an essential justification for human presence in space.<br /><br />Jon (in NZ) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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quasar2

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this reflects my sentiments. there`s really nothing else as important. whether or not infrastructure is built frm Moon or Mars. it just so happens that our current foreseeable level is geared towards building from The Moon. now this doesn`t mean that will remain the case. it certainly won`t if more interest is poured in appropriate directions. that`s really all i think a Manned Mars Mission would be @ this point. an attention getter. i think we`ve really had enough of those. & the sad part is that a really simple mission could`ve been done all this time & we should be ashamed of ourselves for not considering it. I`m referring to a Manned Lunar Flyby. i`m wondering really how much attention this would get. not only would this accomplish a great view of Luna, but it would also be (& this is the sad part) first time since Apollo 17, "orbit" would be broken. sad as i`m wondering how significant this would be to the general public. we had a great thread on this. & i`ve been in a kinda shock since i`ve learned how it woulda (& still is) been in this terrible 30 yr gap. i can`t imagine how others (who have known well of this) feel. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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