Life on Earth

Oct 21, 2019
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Life on Earth

It has been argued that evolution cannot explain the development of life on Earth. Often it is suggested that life came to Earth from another star system (panspermia), but that only removes the origin of life by one level. It would only take one pair of molecules which, when combined, would be able to reproduce, or cause to be reproduced, another pair capable of the same thing. After that, time would produce the rest. Considering the Quattuorvigintillion atoms on the Earth, and the Quattuordecillion molecules on the Earth, the possible interactions and random combinations would have been beyond comprehension.

Consider that Earth offered of a laboratory consisting of over 328,000,000 cubic miles of ocean, and more than 2,000,000 cubic miles of fresh water. In addition, that laboratory consisted of an additional 26,000,000,000 cubic miles of soil “capable” of harboring some form of life. This laboratory had hundreds of millions of years to proceed towards even the most primitive form of life, and billions of years to perfect it. It is no wonder at all that we have not yet been able to duplicate that feet with only a few cubic meters of water over a time span of dozens of years.

Perspective. Given that a quart is about the average test volume used to attempt to duplicate life, the oceans alone would contain 273,600,000,000,000,000 quarts of water. (give or take a few gallons).
 

rod

Oct 22, 2019
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It seems this post assumes the abiogenesis origin of life on earth. Q: Is the abiogenesis of life on earth a scientific law and is that law as well attested as Newton's law of gravity or the heliocentric solar system? The scientific method requires the theory to be testable - and falsifiable too. That is why we do not teach the geocentric astronomy today.
 
Oct 21, 2019
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It seems this post assumes the abiogenesis origin of life on earth. Q: Is the abiogenesis of life on earth a scientific law and is that law as well attested as Newton's law of gravity or the heliocentric solar system? The scientific method requires the theory to be testable - and falsifiable too. That is why we do not teach the geocentric astronomy today.
Since the only two options are abiogenesis on Earth, or abiogenesis via panspermia, I merely proposed a plausible explanation for how the former would be a reasonably high probability. Of course, the same conditions would be applicable to life being formed somewhere else, in a similar environment, and brought here.

Since there is no way to verify or refute this proposed explanation, there is no need to hammer it with requirements for scientific method or testability.
 
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rod

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Since the only two options are abiogenesis on Earth, or abiogenesis via panspermia, I merely proposed a plausible explanation for how the former would be a reasonably high probability. Of course, the same conditions would be applicable to life being formed somewhere else, in a similar environment, and brought here.

Since there is no way to verify or refute this proposed explanation, there is no need to hammer it with requirements for scientific method or testability.
Glad you clarified this, thanks.
 
Nov 27, 2019
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Maybe an alien probe 4.6 billion years ago landed on earth and sent back images and science of a dead rock.
Like us they couldn't guarantee probes would be 100% sterile and a few bacteria survived the trip.

We have done the same on probes at Mars, Venus and Titan.

Yet another option to spread life around the galaxy.
 

rod

Oct 22, 2019
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Maybe an alien probe 4.6 billion years ago landed on earth and sent back images and science of a dead rock.
Like us they couldn't guarantee probes would be 100% sterile and a few bacteria survived the trip.

We have done the same on probes at Mars, Venus and Titan.

Yet another option to spread life around the galaxy.
Interesting option here. Currently we have 4142 exoplanets confirmed, The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia

In your option offered, do you know which of the 4142 exoplanets the *alien probe* came from, 4.6 billion years ago? Attempting to apply a more rigorous scientific method to the model used to explain the origin of life on Earth.
 
Oct 21, 2019
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Maybe an alien probe 4.6 billion years ago landed on earth and sent back images and science of a dead rock.
Like us they couldn't guarantee probes would be 100% sterile and a few bacteria survived the trip.
Such a probe could not have spread life to Earth. That was half a billion years before it was possible for life to survive on the newly forming Earth. Although evidence of what appears to be biotic material has been found in rocks estimated at ~4.1 billion years ago , there is no way to determine if it was actually biological in origin. The best guess is that life developed at ~3.5 – 3.7 billion years ago. That is when it appears that the necessary compounds were available at a time when the conditions favored the combinations that would be the precursors to life.
Panspermia only removes the origin of life by one level. Since it appears that all of the ingredients and conditions for abiogenesis existed on Earth for many millions of years, that seems to be more likely than Panspermia.
 
Nov 27, 2019
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Such a probe could not have spread life to Earth. That was half a billion years before it was possible for life to survive on the newly forming Earth. Although evidence of what appears to be biotic material has been found in rocks estimated at ~4.1 billion years ago , there is no way to determine if it was actually biological in origin. The best guess is that life developed at ~3.5 – 3.7 billion years ago. That is when it appears that the necessary compounds were available at a time when the conditions favored the combinations that would be the precursors to life.
Panspermia only removes the origin of life by one level. Since it appears that all of the ingredients and conditions for abiogenesis existed on Earth for many millions of years, that seems to be more likely than Panspermia.
4.6, 4.1 or 3.5 B, just putting out another idea for life to spread.
With our tiny tech we could do the same thing right now.
Sending humans to another star system right now is unthinkable but a small probe taking a few 1000 years or less not unthinkable.

If humanities goal was to spread life around our galaxy we could do it right now.
 
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Interesting option here. Currently we have 4142 exoplanets confirmed, The Extrasolar Planets Encyclopaedia

In your option offered, do you know which of the 4142 exoplanets the *alien probe* came from, 4.6 billion years ago? Attempting to apply a more rigorous scientific method to the model used to explain the origin of life on Earth.
Probably none of them, i still think we are looking in the wrong place for ET.
Our system Moon Earth will be an oddball, Large planets moon is a much more likely home of ET.

For every Earth/moon going around a correct sized and quiet start in just the right place, i think we will find 100 big planets in the right place with an earth sized moon.
The magnetic shielding of the big planet will open a much wider star type to host ET. JMO
 
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For every Earth/moon going around a correct sized and quiet start in just the right place, i think we will find 100 big planets in the right place with an earth sized moon.
The magnetic shielding of the big planet will open a much wider star type to host ET. JMO
Using our own solar system as an example, the five largest Moons of Jupiter are well within Jupiter’s 6,000,000 mile radius Magnetophere, subjecting them to intense radiation.

“It’s dangerous to remain too long inside the radiation belts of Jupiter. The high-energy particles can damage space probes, and they also can destroy biological molecules or other signatures of life that might exist on inner moons like Europa.”
 
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Using our own solar system as an example, the five largest Moons of Jupiter are well within Jupiter’s 6,000,000 mile radius Magnetophere, subjecting them to intense radiation.

“It’s dangerous to remain too long inside the radiation belts of Jupiter. The high-energy particles can damage space probes, and they also can destroy biological molecules or other signatures of life that might exist on inner moons like Europa.”
Yes you also have to be the moon of a biggish safe planet.
It's limiting the number of places for ET.
A water world with it's own magnetosphere and radiation protection from the ocean is a good place, although i doubt if dolphins will set up radio telescopes.
 
Dec 11, 2019
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Maybe an alien probe 4.6 billion years ago landed on earth and sent back images and science of a dead rock.
Like us they couldn't guarantee probes would be 100% sterile and a few bacteria survived the trip.

We have done the same on probes at Mars, Venus and Titan.

Yet another option to spread life around the galaxy.
Maybe their is something like a Galactic Federation that spreads life around vacant planets. Just a thought.lol!

After all the Sumerians in their ancient tablets said their were entities called the Anunnaki combining their DNA with the Neanderthal DNA to create the humans we have now. May explain the giant leap in a short time of evolution from the Neanderthal.
 

rod

Oct 22, 2019
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Maybe their is something like a Galactic Federation that spreads life around vacant planets. Just a thought.lol!

After all the Sumerians in their ancient tablets said their were entities called the Anunnaki combining their DNA with the Neanderthal DNA to create the humans we have now. May explain the giant leap in a short time of evolution from the Neanderthal.
What Sumerian clay tablet reference(s) are you using here to show the Sumerians spoke about DNA and Neanderthals? Ancient Near East texts like Sumerian clay tablets come with catalog numbers like the El Amarna texts and document who the translator is too. Here is an example, "The text of “Enki and Ninhursag” is based primarily on a fairly well-preserved six-column tablet excavated in Nippur and p 38 now in the University Museum; Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, pp. 37–38). Princeton: Princeton University Press."

Another example is the well known, Sumerian Deluge story "The “deluge” tablet, or rather the lower third of it which is extant, was excavated in Nippur, and is now in the University Museum. It was published by Arno Poebel in PBS, v (1914), No. 1; a transliteration and translation of the text, together with a detailed commentary, were published by the same author in PBS, iv, Pt. 1, pp. 9–70. Poebel’s translation is still standard, and except for slight modifications, underlies the present translation.10 Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 43). Princeton: Princeton University Press."

Seeking truth :)
 
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What Sumerian clay tablet reference(s) are you using here to show the Sumerians spoke about DNA and Neanderthals? Ancient Near East texts like Sumerian clay tablets come with catalog numbers like the El Amarna texts and document who the translator is too. Here is an example, "The text of “Enki and Ninhursag” is based primarily on a fairly well-preserved six-column tablet excavated in Nippur and p 38 now in the University Museum; Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, pp. 37–38). Princeton: Princeton University Press."

Another example is the well known, Sumerian Deluge story "The “deluge” tablet, or rather the lower third of it which is extant, was excavated in Nippur, and is now in the University Museum. It was published by Arno Poebel in PBS, v (1914), No. 1; a transliteration and translation of the text, together with a detailed commentary, were published by the same author in PBS, iv, Pt. 1, pp. 9–70. Poebel’s translation is still standard, and except for slight modifications, underlies the present translation.10 Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 43). Princeton: Princeton University Press."

Seeking truth :)
Yea sorry I did miss-state that a bit in where I meant I think that it was the Neanderthal we were created from. Thanks for pointing that out. But yea It was actually clay.

I think this article sums it up pretty good.https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-human-origins-folklore/origins-human-beings-according-ancient-sumerian-texts-0065

The creation of Earth ( Enuma Elish ) according to the Sumerian tablets begins like this:
When in the height heaven was not named,
And the earth beneath did not yet bear a name,
And the primeval Apsu, who begat them,
And chaos, Tiamut, the mother of them both
Their waters were mingled together,
Sure the texts never say anything about neanderthals but clay. But to me it would make sense that these "gods" mixed themselves with the Neanderthal and not clay when read further. But yea for sure none of will ever truly know what really happened.. It is all just theories. All very interesting I do think though. Thanks for your input. I like to hear everbodies theory on it.
 

rod

Oct 22, 2019
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I think this article sums it up pretty good.https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-human-origins-folklore/origins-human-beings-according-ancient-sumerian-texts-0065

The creation of Earth ( Enuma Elish ) according to the Sumerian tablets begins like this:

Sure the texts never say anything about neanderthals but clay. But to me it would make sense that these "gods" mixed themselves with the Neanderthal and not clay when read further. But yea for sure none of will ever truly know what really happened.. It is all just theories. All very interesting I do think though. Thanks for your input. I like to hear ever bodies theory on it.
Okay, you are offering an interpretation of the Enuma Elish, well known in Ancient Near East studies that departs from conventional archaeology :)

Example, "The Creation Epic
The struggle between cosmic order and chaos was to the ancient Mesopotamians a fateful drama that was renewed at the turn of each new year. The epic which deals with these events was therefore the most significant expression of the religious literature of Mesopotamia. The work, consisting of seven tablets, was known in Akkadian as Enūma eliš “When on high,” after its opening words. It was recited with due solemnity on the fourth day of the New Year’s festival.
Portions of this work were first made available in modern times by George Smith, in The Chaldean Account of Genesis (1876)." ref - Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 60). Princeton: Princeton University Press.

Remember, there are seven clay tablets in this creation story and Marduk slays Tiamat and makes the heavens and Moon from Tiamat's body "That he might divide the monster and do artful works. He split her like a shellfish into two parts:
Half of her he set up and ceiled it as sky," ref - Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 67). Princeton: Princeton University Press.
 
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Okay, you are offering an interpretation of the Enuma Elish, well known in Ancient Near East studies that departs from conventional archaeology :)

Example, "The Creation Epic
The struggle between cosmic order and chaos was to the ancient Mesopotamians a fateful drama that was renewed at the turn of each new year. The epic which deals with these events was therefore the most significant expression of the religious literature of Mesopotamia. The work, consisting of seven tablets, was known in Akkadian as Enūma eliš “When on high,” after its opening words. It was recited with due solemnity on the fourth day of the New Year’s festival.
Portions of this work were first made available in modern times by George Smith, in The Chaldean Account of Genesis (1876)." ref - Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 60). Princeton: Princeton University Press.

Remember, there are seven clay tablets in this creation story and Marduk slays Tiamat and makes the heavens and Moon from Tiamat's body "That he might divide the monster and do artful works. He split her like a shellfish into two parts:
Half of her he set up and ceiled it as sky," ref - Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 67). Princeton: Princeton University Press.
Have you read any of Sitchin's books? They are very interesting I think. I do find it interesting how the book Genesis of the OT have many parallels. You can tell the ancient priests or whoever wrote the books of the OT had the tablets in their hand. Try to tell a Christian that. You will get your head bit off. :D
 

rod

Oct 22, 2019
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Have you read any of Sitchin's books? They are very interesting I think. I do find it interesting how the book Genesis of the OT have many parallels. You can tell the ancient priests or whoever wrote the books of the OT had the tablets in their hand. Try to tell a Christian that. You will get your head bit off. :D
FYI. I have read many scholarly works on the Babylonian Creation account, Enuma Elish, translated from the original including more material on clay tablet V that was uncovered in archaeology, presenting more information. The parallels claimed by some, others show are not so similar, this is how scholarship works. For example, you said "You can tell the ancient priests or whoever wrote the books of the OT had the tablets in their hand." There are seven clay tablets known in The Enuma Elish in archaeology and some extant tablets contain slightly different versions of the story just like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Flood story.

Question: Does your historical reconstruction of how the book of Genesis was written, document how many of the seven tablets were used by the ancient Hebrew redactors and editors? Did they use all seven or just tablets 1 and 2?

The Babylonian creation account has the gods fighting and Marduk becomes supreme god by battling other gods and defeating them. The Babylonian king at the New Year festival, would bring out the creation clay tablets and read them to the people, celebrating the victory of Marduk over other gods like Tiamat (Tiamut). Genesis 1 for examples has no gods battling to establish one, supreme god, e.g. Genesis 1:1. There is also the subject of the Ebla creation account now, much older than the Babylonian version. "Creation Hymn. The most extensive parallel between Ebla and the Bible comes from a creation hymn to the Lord of heaven and earth, found on three tablets—two complete and one partial. The original epigrapher of the Ebla expedition translated the creation hymn as follows...This Eblaite creation hymn, which is more similar to the beginning of Gen 1 than any other ancient Near Eastern or Egyptian creation myth, is also the oldest of any creation account yet discovered." Ref - Babcock, B. C., & Kennedy, T. M. (2016). Ebla Texts. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

Question: When you reconstruct how the book of Genesis was written claiming the Babylonian creation account was used, what about the much older, Ebla creation account?
 
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FYI. I have read many scholarly works on the Babylonian Creation account, Enuma Elish, translated from the original including more material on clay tablet V that was uncovered in archaeology, presenting more information. The parallels claimed by some, others show are not so similar, this is how scholarship works. For example, you said "You can tell the ancient priests or whoever wrote the books of the OT had the tablets in their hand." There are seven clay tablets known in The Enuma Elish in archaeology and some extant tablets contain slightly different versions of the story just like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Flood story.

Question: Does your historical reconstruction of how the book of Genesis was written, document how many of the seven tablets were used by the ancient Hebrew redactors and editors? Did they use all seven or just tablets 1 and 2?

The Babylonian creation account has the gods fighting and Marduk becomes supreme god by battling other gods and defeating them. The Babylonian king at the New Year festival, would bring out the creation clay tablets and read them to the people, celebrating the victory of Marduk over other gods like Tiamat (Tiamut). Genesis 1 for examples has no gods battling to establish one, supreme god, e.g. Genesis 1:1. There is also the subject of the Ebla creation account now, much older than the Babylonian version. "Creation Hymn. The most extensive parallel between Ebla and the Bible comes from a creation hymn to the Lord of heaven and earth, found on three tablets—two complete and one partial. The original epigrapher of the Ebla expedition translated the creation hymn as follows...This Eblaite creation hymn, which is more similar to the beginning of Gen 1 than any other ancient Near Eastern or Egyptian creation myth, is also the oldest of any creation account yet discovered." Ref - Babcock, B. C., & Kennedy, T. M. (2016). Ebla Texts. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

Question: When you reconstruct how the book of Genesis was written claiming the Babylonian creation account was used, what about the much older, Ebla creation account?
Nice Rod. I like how you know a great deal on this. I see you have done much research on it yourself. For your first question. That is a very good one and I don't think we will ever know how they put Genesis together exactly. Unless you think Genesis is actually the word of God I think it is obvious that Moses didn't write it and whoever put this book together had to have knowledge of this these tablets. I suppose it could have been passed on orally also and its always possible they didn't have the tablets in hand. I think Thomas Paine in the Age of Reason put forth a pretty compelling argument that Moses didn't write the first 5 books. Have you ever read Age of Reason?

Interesting I have never heard of Eblaite creation hymn. I am sure the writers could have mixed and matched different tablets to create this new book called Genesis. Do you have any links on where I can read the Ebla at? I do like to try to connect the dots and see how these later religions were and books were put together by using older beliefs. I appreciate all your information on that so thank you.
 
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rod

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Nice Rod. I like how you know a great deal on this. I see you have done much research on it yourself. For your first question. That is a very good one and I don't think we will ever know how they put Genesis together exactly. Unless you think Genesis is actually the word of God I think it is obvious that Moses didn't write it and whoever put this book together had to have knowledge of this these tablets. I suppose it could have been passed on orally also and its always possible they didn't have the tablets in hand. I think Thomas Paine in the Age of Reason put forth a pretty compelling argument that Moses didn't write the first 5 books. Have you ever read Age of Reason?

Interesting I have never heard of Eblaite creation hymn. I am sure the writers could have mixed and matched different tablets to create this new book called Genesis. Do you have any links on where I can read the Ebla at? I do like to try to connect the dots and see how these later religions were and books were put together by using older beliefs. I appreciate all your information on that so thank you.
Concerning Ebla creation account, this was published in 1980. 'Ebla Update Ebla and the Bible—Observations on the New Epigrapher’s Analysis', Pettinato, G., BAR 06:06, 1980. My note from 1980 - the 1980 BAR translation published included photos of the Ebla cuneiform creation tablets as well (so others could easily read them and translate too). It is clear this Ebla creation account featured one Creator and the earth is made before the Sun according to the text sequence, similar to Genesis 1 (3rd and 4th Days of Creation). The Ebla tablets have been translated and published since 1980.

Did Thomas Paine know about the Ebla tablets? No, in fact when JEDP school was developed to explain the origin of the Old Testament - the original premise was that Moses could not write because there was no writing in that early period of ancient history, e.g. Julius Wellhausen. Archaeology exploded this false concept of ancient history in later excavations. Truthseeker007, you are very selective in *your reconstruction of ancient history* including your reconstruction of how the Bible was written - without directly observing any of the history, I know I did not observe this history. Here is a good example from a different source that contradicts what you present in your arguments from the Enuma Elish and the book of Genesis and how the Hebrew priests borrowed and wrote from those clay tablets they all had in their hands. "It is not correct to say that “Enuma elish” was adopted and adapted by the Israelites to produce the Genesis stories. As Lambert holds, there is “no evidence of Hebrew borrowing from Babylon” (1965: 296). Sjöberg accepts Lambert's opinion that “there was hardly any influence from that Babylonian text on the Old Testament creation accounts” (1984: 217)…", ref - Genesis and Ancient Near Eastern Stories of Creation and Flood: An Introduction Part I, biblearchaeology.org, Feb-07.

A concern I have about the historical reconstructions you engage in by citing the 7 clay tablets of the Babylonian creation account. The clay tablet extant copies date from the time of Ashurbanipal of Assyria library, 669 B.C. and perhaps the epic of Atrahasis may date to 1800 B.C., yet you build a past history where some type of E.T. aliens and Neanderthals mixed together it seems chiefly based upon a late, 669 B.C. copy of the Enuma Elish and ignore other scholars work on these 7 clay tablets too that do not support your *historical reconstructions*. There are many other Ancient Near East creation accounts that are older than the Enuma Elish that do not support your reconstructions of ancient history where E.T. aliens and Neanderthals lived as a happy family. The Ebla creation account is a good example, others are Egyptian monotheism like the Hymn to Aton, etc. It is important to show that you are presenting reliable, and factual ancient history and not *fake news* based upon an assortment of misconceptions and faulty reporting methods, e.g. ignoring content that contradicts the claims.
 
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Concerning Ebla creation account, this was published in 1980. 'Ebla Update Ebla and the Bible—Observations on the New Epigrapher’s Analysis', Pettinato, G., BAR 06:06, 1980. My note from 1980 - the 1980 BAR translation published included photos of the Ebla cuneiform creation tablets as well (so others could easily read them and translate too). It is clear this Ebla creation account featured one Creator and the earth is made before the Sun according to the text sequence, similar to Genesis 1 (3rd and 4th Days of Creation). The Ebla tablets have been translated and published since 1980.

Did Thomas Paine know about the Ebla tablets? No, in fact when JEDP school was developed to explain the origin of the Old Testament - the original premise was that Moses could not write because there was no writing in that early period of ancient history, e.g. Julius Wellhausen. Archaeology exploded this false concept of ancient history in later excavations. Truthseeker007, you are very selective in *your reconstruction of ancient history* including your reconstruction of how the Bible was written - without directly observing any of the history, I know I did not observe this history. Here is a good example from a different source that contradicts what you present in your arguments from the Enuma Elish and the book of Genesis and how the Hebrew priests borrowed and wrote from those clay tablets they all had in their hands. "It is not correct to say that “Enuma elish” was adopted and adapted by the Israelites to produce the Genesis stories. As Lambert holds, there is “no evidence of Hebrew borrowing from Babylon” (1965: 296). Sjöberg accepts Lambert's opinion that “there was hardly any influence from that Babylonian text on the Old Testament creation accounts” (1984: 217)…", ref - Genesis and Ancient Near Eastern Stories of Creation and Flood: An Introduction Part I, biblearchaeology.org, Feb-07.

A concern I have about the historical reconstructions you engage in by citing the 7 clay tablets of the Babylonian creation account. The clay tablet extant copies date from the time of Ashurbanipal of Assyria library, 669 B.C. and perhaps the epic of Atrahasis may date to 1800 B.C., yet you build a past history where some type of E.T. aliens and Neanderthals mixed together it seems chiefly based upon a late, 669 B.C. copy of the Enuma Elish and ignore other scholars work on these 7 clay tablets too that do not support your *historical reconstructions*. There are many other Ancient Near East creation accounts that are older than the Enuma Elish that do not support your reconstructions of ancient history where E.T. aliens and Neanderthals lived as a happy family. The Ebla creation account is a good example, others are Egyptian monotheism like the Hymn to Aton, etc. It is important to show that you are presenting reliable, and factual ancient history and not *fake news* based upon an assortment of misconceptions and faulty reporting methods, e.g. ignoring content that contradicts the claims.
So forgive me if I read that all wrong and thankyou for your informative post. But do you believe a Moses wrote the first 5 books and Genesis? I just feel as I read that. That is what you were saying. Correct me if I am wrong.

And well yea not one of us has really observed the history. We can only try to figure out what happen. I do like to go deeper into this and feel free to message me. We might get in trouble for this has not much to do with space. :D Or does it? I do feel these so called gods may have come from space. But what do I know?lol!

After a few search page searches in what you were talking about. This is about the most I could find on the Ebla:
https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/biblical-history/archives-of-ebla-and-the-bible.htm
 
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So forgive me if I read that all wrong and thankyou for your informative post. But do you believe a Moses wrote the first 5 books and Genesis? I just feel as I read that. That is what you were saying. Correct me if I am wrong.

And well yea not one of us has really observed the history. We can only try to figure out what happen. I do like to go deeper into this and feel free to message me. We might get in trouble for this has not much to do with space. :D Or does it? I do feel these so called gods may have come from space. But what do I know?lol!

After a few search page searches in what you were talking about. This is about the most I could find on the Ebla:
https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/biblical-history/archives-of-ebla-and-the-bible.htm
Rod's comment and note. Truthseeker007, I am glad you could find some information on Ebla. Ebla is well known in archaeology circles like the Hittite references to Ebla and slavery at Ebla, e.g. The Song of Release or Liberation concerning slaves kept by the people of Ebla and destruction of the city of Ebla. Concerning space and E.T. aliens visiting Earth recorded in the Babylonian Enuma Elish, you and I do not use the same sources or the same standards for defining what is factual ancient history. This discussion kicked off because the Enuma Elish was used to show some type of E.T. aliens visited Earth and mingled with stone age cultures like Neanderthals. I do have much information on the Ancient Near East texts including Hittite texts and the El Amarna tablets (382 tablets) in my Logos electronic library (my canonical reference). The sources I use about Ancient Near East texts and history – show nothing like the Annunaki gods as E.T. aliens from space visiting Earth during various stone ages. Example, “May the mighty gods of heaven and earth, (70) the Annunaki in their totality, the guardian spirit of the temple, (and) Lebettum of Ebabbar, curse him, his descendants, his land, his warriors, his people, and his nation, with a foul curse! (80) May Enlil, by his word which cannot be altered, curse him with these (161 Reading á-ni-a-tim) curses, and may they come upon him quickly!” ref - Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 180). Princeton: Princeton University Press.

Another example about the Annunaki, “The Poem of Erra and Ishum likewise cites human noise as disrupting the rest of the gods. Do a favour to the Anunnaki who love silence! Sleep no longer pours over the Anunnaki, because of people’s noise. Cattle are trampling down the pastureland, the life of the country. The farmer weeps bitterly over his [yield]. The lion and the wolf lay low Shakkan’s cattle. The shepherd prays to you for his sheep, he cannot sleep by day nor by night.” Ref - Walton, J. H. (2011). Genesis 1 as Ancient Cosmology (p. 115). Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns.

The Enuma Elish extant copies date to about 2700 years ago or the first millennium B.C., the Neanderthals are commonly dated some 30,000 to 50,000 years ago or more. As you commented “I do feel these so-called gods may have come from space.”

Truthseeker007, you and I use different standards to validate ancient history and what happened. When it comes to the Annunaki and other gods referenced in Ancient Near East texts, other scholars understand the history very differently than visitations by E.T. aliens coming to Earth during various stone ages like the Neanderthals. Here is a short example.

“Ontology/Theogony The mythology of both Mesopotamia and Egypt makes clear that the gods had origins. They exist in familial relationships and there are generations of gods.4 When the texts speak of theogony (origins of the gods) they include a number of elements in the presentation. In Egyptian literature it is most common to think of the earliest gods coming into being through bodily fluids (the creator god spitting, sneezing, sweating, or masturbating), while the later deities are simply born to a previous generation of deity. In the Memphite Theology the gods are brought into being by Atum separating them from himself.5 One way that creation was expressed was by “the mouth which pronounced the name of everything.”6 Typically the first gods created are primordial cosmic gods. Since the forces of nature are expressions and manifestations of the attributes of deities, cosmogony and theogony become intertwined as the natural world comes into being along with the gods who embody the various elements of the cosmos…” ref - Walton, J. H. (2018). Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible (Second Edition, p. 48). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic: A Division of Baker Publishing Group.
 
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Rod's comment and note. Truthseeker007, I am glad you could find some information on Ebla. Ebla is well known in archaeology circles like the Hittite references to Ebla and slavery at Ebla, e.g. The Song of Release or Liberation concerning slaves kept by the people of Ebla and destruction of the city of Ebla. Concerning space and E.T. aliens visiting Earth recorded in the Babylonian Enuma Elish, you and I do not use the same sources or the same standards for defining what is factual ancient history. This discussion kicked off because the Enuma Elish was used to show some type of E.T. aliens visited Earth and mingled with stone age cultures like Neanderthals. I do have much information on the Ancient Near East texts including Hittite texts and the El Amarna tablets (382 tablets) in my Logos electronic library (my canonical reference). The sources I use about Ancient Near East texts and history – show nothing like the Annunaki gods as E.T. aliens from space visiting Earth during various stone ages. Example, “May the mighty gods of heaven and earth, (70) the Annunaki in their totality, the guardian spirit of the temple, (and) Lebettum of Ebabbar, curse him, his descendants, his land, his warriors, his people, and his nation, with a foul curse! (80) May Enlil, by his word which cannot be altered, curse him with these (161 Reading á-ni-a-tim) curses, and may they come upon him quickly!” ref - Pritchard, J. B. (Ed.). (1969). The Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (3rd ed. with Supplement, p. 180). Princeton: Princeton University Press.

Another example about the Annunaki, “The Poem of Erra and Ishum likewise cites human noise as disrupting the rest of the gods. Do a favour to the Anunnaki who love silence! Sleep no longer pours over the Anunnaki, because of people’s noise. Cattle are trampling down the pastureland, the life of the country. The farmer weeps bitterly over his [yield]. The lion and the wolf lay low Shakkan’s cattle. The shepherd prays to you for his sheep, he cannot sleep by day nor by night.” Ref - Walton, J. H. (2011). Genesis 1 as Ancient Cosmology (p. 115). Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns.

The Enuma Elish extant copies date to about 2700 years ago or the first millennium B.C., the Neanderthals are commonly dated some 30,000 to 50,000 years ago or more. As you commented “I do feel these so-called gods may have come from space.”

Truthseeker007, you and I use different standards to validate ancient history and what happened. When it comes to the Annunaki and other gods referenced in Ancient Near East texts, other scholars understand the history very differently than visitations by E.T. aliens coming to Earth during various stone ages like the Neanderthals. Here is a short example.

“Ontology/Theogony The mythology of both Mesopotamia and Egypt makes clear that the gods had origins. They exist in familial relationships and there are generations of gods.4 When the texts speak of theogony (origins of the gods) they include a number of elements in the presentation. In Egyptian literature it is most common to think of the earliest gods coming into being through bodily fluids (the creator god spitting, sneezing, sweating, or masturbating), while the later deities are simply born to a previous generation of deity. In the Memphite Theology the gods are brought into being by Atum separating them from himself.5 One way that creation was expressed was by “the mouth which pronounced the name of everything.”6 Typically the first gods created are primordial cosmic gods. Since the forces of nature are expressions and manifestations of the attributes of deities, cosmogony and theogony become intertwined as the natural world comes into being along with the gods who embody the various elements of the cosmos…” ref - Walton, J. H. (2018). Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible (Second Edition, p. 48). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic: A Division of Baker Publishing Group.
Rod that is all very interesting. Yea I guess it depends who is translating the tablets. I don't think we will ever know for sure unless the aliens land and say" yes we did use our DNA with the Neanderthal to create the humans in Africa". But I don 't think that is going to happen any time soon.lol!

What are your thoughts on the giant leap from Neanderthal to human in a short time? Are you aware of if they ever found the missing link? Again thanks for all the information. I am trying to see both sides.
 
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Rod that is all very interesting. Yea I guess it depends who is translating the tablets. I don't think we will ever know for sure unless the aliens land and say" yes we did use our DNA with the Neanderthal to create the humans in Africa". But I don 't think that is going to happen any time soon.lol!

What are your thoughts on the giant leap from Neanderthal to human in a short time? Are you aware of if they ever found the missing link? Again thanks for all the information. I am trying to see both sides.
Truthseeker007, “giant leap from Neanderthal to human in a short time?” MS BING says 20% of human DNA today is Neanderthal, “At Least 20 Percent Neanderthal DNA Is In Modern Humans, Scientists Say. At least one-fifth of the Neanderthal genome may lurk within modern humans, influencing the skin, hair and diseases people have today, researchers say.” You and I may both have some Neanderthal DNA in our body. DNA evidence like this does not suggest there ever was a giant leap forward in *human evolution*. You asked, “Are you aware of if they ever found the missing link?” My answer – there are numerous missing links in the fossil record documented from Precambrian to Cenozoic strata. Charles Darwin said that the evolutionary tree of life on Earth goes back to the last, common ancestor, the first living cell. As far as I know, the fossil of the last, common ancestor has never been found so missing link here. I am also aware that since Feb-2013, the paleobiology database documents more than 3,000 living fossils, from Cambrian through Cenozoic that were thought to be long extinct but found still living on Earth today.
 
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