Long term Energia space plans

[JonClarke]

Interesting interview at http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/public_07-01.html<br /><br />"The proposals on the concept of Russia’s manned space navigation development program were prepared by RSC Energia in the latter half of the year 2005 in order to determine technically and economically sound lines of activities in this area for the next 26 years. The Corporation possesses a more then 45-year experience in implementing the manned space flight programs in cooperation with tens and hundreds of enterprises and organizations of the industry. As a prime contractor for activities in this area, the enterprise is responsible for execution of the already approved projects, for their rational continuation and evolution.<br /><br />This has spurred us to develop the proposed concept, which provides implementation of the following four phases of national manned space navigation:<br /><br />- development of an economically efficient reusable Clipper space transportation system.<br /><br />- near-earth space industrialization based on ISS Russian Segment development.<br /><br />- implementation of the Moon program, which initiates the Moon industrialization.<br /><br />- implementation of manned exploratory missions to Mars. <br /><br />Interesting stuff, although how much is going to be possible politically or economically remains to be seen. There are some nice drawings of concepts and designs that don't normally see the light of the internet though.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[j05h]

"The main goal of manned space navigation in the XXI. century should become the Solar System industrialization by the mankind."<br /><br />I couldn't have said it better myself, except maybe in English. That the president of Energia is pushing space industrialization is wonderful, and indicative. It looks like they plan on doing a lot of their development purely by market methods. I really like that new graphic of the "IOrbiter" - it's the first new MarsPost image that they've released in 5 years! It's cool, IMHO, because it is an evolutionary system. <br /><br />Thanks for the link,<br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[daniko]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Interesting stuff, although how much is going to be possible politically or economically remains to be seen. There are some nice drawings of concepts and designs that don't normally see the light of the internet though. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />We've commented this topic on the "By,By Klipper and welcome capsule.", but obviously it didn't draw much attention. There you can find the same link and several others which relate to the current moves in russian space program.<br /><br />From my point of view this "plan" is now "in fact" the russian program for manned spaceflights.

 

[JonClarke]

As a Rusophile I find that very encouraging!<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Klipper is a long way out yet, in reality the next step is to modernise the electronics on the Soyuz. Once that is done it shouldn't be a problem to use the same teck in the Parom.<br /><br /><br />

 

[PistolPete]

Just got done reading it. I finally understand what the Parom is to be used for. Looks like an interesting vehicle. If necessary, we could launch ISS modules via a Delta IV Heavy with a docking adapter at one end and have the Parom take it to the ISS. This is the way that the ISS should have been assembled in the first place.<br /><br />However, Newsartist is right. Perhaps Klipper should retain it's launch escape rockets through the flight as a backup. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

Is that a space station orbiting the moon in Phase 2??<br /><br />Nice <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Yes Jon ,I also like to know.

 

[holmec]

A very nice concept. Not only cargo but clipper too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[j05h]

> Is that a space station orbiting the moon in Phase 2?? <br /><br />Yes, and judging by the article, it would supported by future-Soyuz architecture and in-situ resources from the Moon. Pretty cool, shows some thought in long-term planning and is a great evolution of what they have now to get to the "MMC" Mars craft. Except for Soyuz and Zvezda it's currently vaporware.<br /><br />Maybe one of those Russian Oligarchs will get a hankering to retire on Mars? That'd get things rolling!<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

"Except for Soyuz and Zvezda it's currently vaporware. "<br /><br />Not really. Parom is basically a TKS derivative, so it too is essentially existing hardware, a TKS-derived tug called FSM was used to dock Kvant-1 to Mir. Klipper has gone well beyond the vapourware stage, and the cargo modules are based on the unflown Progress 2. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[j05h]

> Not really. Parom is basically a TKS derivative, so it too is essentially existing hardware, a TKS-derived tug called FSM was used to dock Kvant-1 to Mir. Klipper has gone well beyond the vapourware stage, and the cargo modules are based on the unflown Progress 2.<br /><br />All good news! FGB/Zarya/Zvezda are also in the TKS heritage. The original TKS was very sophisticated. I'm not familiar with Progress 2, but have seen drawings of an FGB-derived cargo module for use with Zenit.<br /><br />I like the "other" Zarya - a 4-6 seat Big Capsule. <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[PistolPete]

It's funny, all the Russians have to do to come up with somehting like this is to slightly revamp an idea from the 60's. Just interchange the same dozen modules and you can make just about anything, from an unmanned supply ship to a manned Mars mission. To do that here you would need a couple of decades, tens of billions of dollars (at least) and a clean sheet of paper.<br /><br />Is it me, or does anyone else here think that the Russian space program is way more interesting than our own? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[publiusr]

They kept their space program away from the Air Force people. It is what the US space program would have been if Medaris and not Schriever were in charge. Ballistic missiles are artillery--and good Army men needed to run the program.<br /><br />For starters, the Russians never used solids as a crutch--though they finally got them in the end. They spent real money for big liquid-fueled engines.<br /><br />They are abandoning their HLLV prowes sadly--esp seeing that it might actually take a UR-500 Proton to launch Kliper. They need to stick with capsules--as do we.<br /><br />The Soviets have a program because they put big gov't funds in technology, as opposed to the space libertarian frauds with wishful thinking. In Russia, the gov't tells e big oil what to do. Over here, its the other way around.<br /><br />Spacelaunch is blue collar--not white collar. TVA, not MSN. The Russians knew this and Korolov, like Mike Griffin, used REAL money for the Ares V of the 1950s--the R-7, which was the heavy lifter of its day.<br /><br />And it flys a lot higher than Rutans ME-163 Komet contraption.